Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

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Purplepain2018
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Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Purplepain2018 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:26 pm

So I know I will probably get killed by the comparison between Cousins and Brady, but just to get some conversation going why cant Cousins play like Brady? They both cannot run to get out of a fire, they both came from the Big 10, they both have comparable receivers and running backs. Well for starters, Brady may be the best quarterback to has ever played the game. His offensive weapons every year keeps changing, but he continually puts up big numbers, they are always in the playoffs, and they are always in the conversation for going to and winning a Super Bowl. Brady hardly ever makes mistakes to cost his team and he always seems to know where his receivers are. He will not force a throw into double coverage and he has 6 Super Bowl rings to show for all of his knowledge and expertise. So why cant Cousins do the same thing? Good questions. Cousins, to me, when his first read is taken away he seems to panic and not know where to go with the ball. If he has a clean pocket to throw he can be stellar, but more times than not this year he was running for his life because our OL was so bad. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:59 pm

Purplepain2018 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:26 pm
So I know I will probably get killed by the comparison between Cousins and Brady, but just to get some conversation going why cant Cousins play like Brady? They both cannot run to get out of a fire, they both came from the Big 10, they both have comparable receivers and running backs. Well for starters, Brady may be the best quarterback to has ever played the game. His offensive weapons every year keeps changing, but he continually puts up big numbers, they are always in the playoffs, and they are always in the conversation for going to and winning a Super Bowl. Brady hardly ever makes mistakes to cost his team and he always seems to know where his receivers are. He will not force a throw into double coverage and he has 6 Super Bowl rings to show for all of his knowledge and expertise. So why cant Cousins do the same thing? Good questions. Cousins, to me, when his first read is taken away he seems to panic and not know where to go with the ball. If he has a clean pocket to throw he can be stellar, but more times than not this year he was running for his life because our OL was so bad. What are your thoughts?
Why can’t any QB play like Tom Brady? Why can’t any coach coach like Bill Belichick? Belichick is the sole reason why Brady is even relevant. Either way, not sure where you’re going with this comparison
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:15 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:59 pm
Purplepain2018 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:26 pm
So I know I will probably get killed by the comparison between Cousins and Brady, but just to get some conversation going why cant Cousins play like Brady? They both cannot run to get out of a fire, they both came from the Big 10, they both have comparable receivers and running backs. Well for starters, Brady may be the best quarterback to has ever played the game. His offensive weapons every year keeps changing, but he continually puts up big numbers, they are always in the playoffs, and they are always in the conversation for going to and winning a Super Bowl. Brady hardly ever makes mistakes to cost his team and he always seems to know where his receivers are. He will not force a throw into double coverage and he has 6 Super Bowl rings to show for all of his knowledge and expertise. So why cant Cousins do the same thing? Good questions. Cousins, to me, when his first read is taken away he seems to panic and not know where to go with the ball. If he has a clean pocket to throw he can be stellar, but more times than not this year he was running for his life because our OL was so bad. What are your thoughts?
Why can’t any QB play like Tom Brady? Why can’t any coach coach like Bill Belichick? Belichick is the sole reason why Brady is even relevant. Either way, not sure where you’re going with this comparison
Yep. It's definitely the offseason.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by S197 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 pm

Brady didn't put up huge numbers in the playoffs and he did make mistakes. He threw a pick at the goal line, threw a game losing pick and was bailed out by an offsides, fumbled on a sack, amongst other plays. He had a solid run game, an OL that provided protection, and a defense that showed up when needed. He won that ring largely due to his teammates and a great game plan.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:21 pm

All Brady does is excel in pressure situations, and Cousins chokes every single time. Cousins isnt fit to carry Brady's jock strap. Brady and BB make an excellent pair.

On a side not, how come when you foe someone, you still see them when someone quotes them? Anyway to completely foe someone?
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 pm
Brady didn't put up huge numbers in the playoffs and he did make mistakes. He threw a pick at the goal line, threw a game losing pick and was bailed out by an offsides, fumbled on a sack, amongst other plays. He had a solid run game, an OL that provided protection, and a defense that showed up when needed. He won that ring largely due to his teammates and a great game plan.
I suppose Brady WAS pretty average. Well, except for those two fourth-quarter touchdown drives in KC. Or the overtime TD drive that included three straight conversions on 3rd-and-10. Or the four straight completions in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl for 67 yards that led to the game-clinching TD.

But yeah, other than clutch moments, Brady was basically Kirk Cousins with a better game plan.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 am

Great question. I'll answer as follows:

- Play design. Pats seem to design and execute well. Brady has receiving options on almost every play, and usually his first option is his best option. His receivers are where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.

- Run game. Pats can run it. They block well. They are consistent. They aren't flashy, but defenses have to respect this aspect of their offense and because of that they cannot simply afford to blitz or pressure the otherwise immobile passer.

- Passing proficiency. Brady is crisp. He is decisive and accurate, often leading his receivers which allows them to make relatively easy catches in stride, often leading to more opportunities to pick up yardage after the catch. Brady can threaten all parts of the field as well. If the pass protection breaks down or he needs fewer yards, he'll find the short option. If he has protection and time, he can find the deeper option.

- Somewhat along the same line, the Pats are good at creating favorable down-distance situations, both for Brady and the passing game specifically, but the offense generally. This helps Brady by allowing the offensive playcalling to remain unpredictable.


I would also say that Brady, like Cousins, is not good under actual pressure. If Brady hears footsteps or otherwise is touched, he is inaccurate and can make mistakes. So what Belichek does well is decrease the likelihood that Brady finds himself in situations where pressure is likely. He does this through a combination of the above, and then Brady executes the gameplan efficiently. The combination is very difficult to beat. If defenses can stop the Pats run game and prevent Brady from hitting those short routes on 1st and 2nd downs, the Pats become very beatable. But very few defenses have shown they can do that consistently, and when the Pats get it going on offense they are nearly unbeatable even if their defense is not great.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:05 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 am
Great question. I'll answer as follows:

- Play design. Pats seem to design and execute well. Brady has receiving options on almost every play, and usually his first option is his best option. His receivers are where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.

- Run game. Pats can run it. They block well. They are consistent. They aren't flashy, but defenses have to respect this aspect of their offense and because of that they cannot simply afford to blitz or pressure the otherwise immobile passer.

- Passing proficiency. Brady is crisp. He is decisive and accurate, often leading his receivers which allows them to make relatively easy catches in stride, often leading to more opportunities to pick up yardage after the catch. Brady can threaten all parts of the field as well. If the pass protection breaks down or he needs fewer yards, he'll find the short option. If he has protection and time, he can find the deeper option.

- Somewhat along the same line, the Pats are good at creating favorable down-distance situations, both for Brady and the passing game specifically, but the offense generally. This helps Brady by allowing the offensive playcalling to remain unpredictable.


I would also say that Brady, like Cousins, is not good under actual pressure. If Brady hears footsteps or otherwise is touched, he is inaccurate and can make mistakes. So what Belichek does well is decrease the likelihood that Brady finds himself in situations where pressure is likely. He does this through a combination of the above, and then Brady executes the gameplan efficiently. The combination is very difficult to beat. If defenses can stop the Pats run game and prevent Brady from hitting those short routes on 1st and 2nd downs, the Pats become very beatable. But very few defenses have shown they can do that consistently, and when the Pats get it going on offense they are nearly unbeatable even if their defense is not great.
1. Belichek's has a heck of a system. Remember the year that Brady was hurt, Matt Cassel stepped in and had a very good year.
2. Brady has had MANY years playing under that system and is super comfortable.
3. Cousins has been in this system for one year, and now is getting a new OC, so expect more time to adapt and learn.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:34 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:21 pm
All Brady does is excel in pressure situations, and Cousins chokes every single time. Cousins isnt fit to carry Brady's jock strap. Brady and BB make an excellent pair.

On a side not, how come when you foe someone, you still see them when someone quotes them? Anyway to completely foe someone?
lol...Bill Belichick is just an elite coach (outside of his cheating). Simple as that. Nobody would know who Tom Brady is if it wasnt for BB. And I wouldnt say Brady excels in pressure situations all the time. He was bailed out of a lot of pressure situations. Bogus calls, stupid plays by others, cheating, etc. Dee Fords lining up offsides, the roughing the passer call where nobody touched Brady's facemask, spy-gate, deflate-gate, the tuck rule, and the list goes on. The guy is good dont get me wrong. But the guy is good because of what Bill Belichick has done for him. Bill Belichick made it to the playoffs with Matt Cassel. It doesnt matter who is out there. The Patriots will always be contenders regardless of who the QB is as long as BB is still there.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by mansquatch » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:37 pm

In terms of the guys around Brady vs those around Cousins I'd argue that for Skill Positions it is close to a push.

I would argue that Cousins has better WR than Brady does. Maybe even far better. NE does not have anyone on the outside that is in the league of Diggs/Thielen.

Gronk isn't what he was 3 or 4 years ago. He can still make it happen. However, at this stage in his career one could make a reasonable case that Rudolph isn't that big of a drop off.

At RB, Cook is the most gifted/talented of all the backs. However, Burkhead and White are phenomenal system backs with years of experience that allow them to execute well above their respective talent levels. Murray might be = Michel between the tackles. Honestly. I put this more on the turmoil at OC for the Vikings. Have to give this to NE though. That offense runs against everybody.

OL obviously goes to the Patriots, but at the start of the sesaon I wonder how far apart the two groups would have been ranked, at least in terms of the guys starting. NE started a bunch of late round guys including a UDFA. By the end of the season the Patriot's coaching staff had them playing elite football.

This last bit is the biggest difference IMO. The Patriots are able to get championship level play out of a bunch of retreads year in and year out. Zimmer hasn't found the right group of coaches to make that happen, at least not on the offensive side of the ball.
(He did it with Sandejo and Hunter on defense.) That to me in the biggest difference.

Also, and I hate to say this, but I wonder if Zimmer's habit of hiring NFL Veteran coaches might be bad in the long run. Yes experience has benefits, but in the area of OL, we might be bringing in guys who cut their chops in the "old normal" of 10-15 years ago where you could safely draft a well polished stud OL early in the draft. In 2019, the new normal is something else entirely. We've yet to find the correct cocktail of coaching on offense that will allow us to make taking late rounders work. (Obviously) Looking forward, do we think Kubiak/Stefanski can make it happen Kubiak has had some championship success in recent years so maybe. Stefanski has been with the Vikings through almost the entire OL dark age. While it might not be his fault, he hasn't been exposed to much success either. Once again, we start a new season with a myriad of ??? at the position group.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:45 pm

A lot of interesting takes in this thread. My two favorite:
1. Tom Brady isn't good under pressure.

and

2. The difference between Brady and Cousins is system.

Here are the 2 biggest reasons Cousins will never be as good as Brady:

1. He does not read the field as quickly as Brady, and takes way to long to pass the ball.

and

2. When Brady plays great teams he steps up his game, when Cousins does, he wilts under the pressure.

There are a lot of other reasons he will never be as good, but those are the big ones and easiest for any fan to see.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:51 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:45 pm
A lot of interesting takes in this thread. My two favorite:
1. Tom Brady isn't good under pressure.

and

2. The difference between Brady and Cousins is system.

Here are the 2 biggest reasons Cousins will never be as good as Brady:

1. He does not read the field as quickly as Brady, and takes way to long to pass the ball.

and

2. When Brady plays great teams he steps up his game, when Cousins does, he wilts under the pressure.

There are a lot of other reasons he will never be as good, but those are the big ones and easiest for any fan to see.
1.) Nobody said Brady isnt good under pressure. 2.) And are you going to tell me if Cousins was on the Pats, he wouldnt be a much better QB? 3.) Brady has the best coach ever. That makes a monstrous difference. Brady is an overall better QB than Cousins yes that is obvious. I guess my question is, why the eff are we even discussing this?
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:55 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:51 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:45 pm
A lot of interesting takes in this thread. My two favorite:
1. Tom Brady isn't good under pressure.

and

2. The difference between Brady and Cousins is system.

Here are the 2 biggest reasons Cousins will never be as good as Brady:

1. He does not read the field as quickly as Brady, and takes way to long to pass the ball.

and

2. When Brady plays great teams he steps up his game, when Cousins does, he wilts under the pressure.

There are a lot of other reasons he will never be as good, but those are the big ones and easiest for any fan to see.
1.) Nobody said Brady isnt good under pressure. 2.) And are you going to tell me if Cousins was on the Pats, he wouldnt be a much better QB? 3.) Brady has the best coach ever. That makes a monstrous difference. Brady is an overall better QB than Cousins yes that is obvious. I guess my question is, why the eff are we even discussing this?
#1
I would also say that Brady, like Cousins, is not good under actual pressure.
#2 Yes Brady is in a betters system. That is not even close to being THE difference between the two. I also think that system is a horrible fit for Cousins, so no, I don't think he would be that much better on the Pats.

#3 We are talking about it because people are delusional about their QB.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:40 pm

I personally feel like this thread is to just pull the Cousins haters out of their holes. Let's compare our QB to one of the best of all time and see where that gets us on this board.....

Should I ask why Christian Ponder doesnt play like Peyton Manning next?
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by S197 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:44 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 pm
Brady didn't put up huge numbers in the playoffs and he did make mistakes. He threw a pick at the goal line, threw a game losing pick and was bailed out by an offsides, fumbled on a sack, amongst other plays. He had a solid run game, an OL that provided protection, and a defense that showed up when needed. He won that ring largely due to his teammates and a great game plan.
I suppose Brady WAS pretty average. Well, except for those two fourth-quarter touchdown drives in KC. Or the overtime TD drive that included three straight conversions on 3rd-and-10. Or the four straight completions in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl for 67 yards that led to the game-clinching TD.

But yeah, other than clutch moments, Brady was basically Kirk Cousins with a better game plan.
Is it really clutch when you convert a 3rd down on a bogus roughing call or when you get a do over after a guy lines up offsides?

In the SB I think it had more to do with a tired defense due to NE's ability to run the football and get a lot of 3 and outs. Brady has his moments too, the pass to Gronk was a beauty but I see age catching up with him. He's not as deadly as he used to be but they've adapted to put less on his shoulders.

He still has the intangibles that don't go away with age but I see him more of a manager than game changer these days. Anyone else in that SB would be giving major props to that defense, which was the real star.

He didn't throw 7 or 8 TDs in the post season like the past few years. He threw 2. With 3 Ints (easily could have been 4). I just don't see the same TB that came back against the Falcons, I see an above average QB that's getting more credit than his teammates. I get it, QBs get the glory and he has the rings, but if you really look at it objectively I find it hard to conclude that was a GOAT postseason.
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