Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

[PurpleKoolaid]

Cousins isnt the problem. He didnt make Rick hand him a billion dollars. Rick didn't protect his investment either. Rick has had a bad Dline since he became GM. He decided to make Zimmer happy instead. Cousin is having all the batted balls, fumbles, INTs, mainly because this Oline stinks to high heaven. If Cousins had a good Oline, I think we would only have 2 losses and no tie. Instead Rick didnt give him a good Oline, and the backups shouldn't even be playing in the NFL. Rick screwed the pouch this year. Anything Cousins can accomplish is gravy. And maybe if we had even an average Oline, Murray and Cook could open up a much better offense. Its the same thing I have been complaining about from years. Rick is not the genius some of you think he is because he gets so many picks.

[StumpHunter]

Seems unlikely with his history. Ask your skins fans friends about the rumors that Cousins wouldn't sign anything other than a fully guaranteed contract, and that being the real reason the skins couldn't get a deal done with him. I scoffed at those rumors when I heard them...then Cousins signed the first fully guaranteed contract of its kind with the Vikings.

Besides, while there are QBs at the end of their career who have taken less to win a SB, when was the last time a guy in his prime has done so?

Steve Young (13.4%) in 1994, Brett Favre (10.2%) in 1996, Peyton Manning (10.4%) in 2006, and Eli Manning (11.7%) in 2011. So... quite recently. Kirk's cap % is 12.61%, or about .81% less than when Steve Young won it. Well within acceptable boundaries, especially when considering Matthew Stafford takes up 14.6% of the Lions' Salary Cap. Drew Brees takes up 13.43%, Flacco takes up 14.06% of the Cap, Russel Wilson is 13.38%, Andrew Luck is 14.64%, Jimmy F'N Garoppolo is taking up a WHOPPING 15.59% for the 49ers.

Cousins's contract hardly hampers the Vikings, if we're being honest.

EDIT: and I completely misread that post.

You actually make my point about huge QB contracts holding the team back for me with this post.

Since 1994, the beginning of the salary cap era, no QB has ever won the SB making as much or more of the salary cap as Cousins is making THIS year. Next year it is a lot more, as is the year after. Considering great QB's in their prime SHOULD be the ones winning SB's, and even average QB's are making 10% of the cap, that should tell you something. Only 4 in 24 years? That is all you really need to know about the impact a massive QB contract has on the team.

Not to mention 3 of the 4 who have won it making that much were HOFers. Not even the most rabid fan would claim that about Cousins at this point. I guess their is always Eli to pin your hopes on?

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean we'll still have Kearse who can play back there. Iloka is definitely gone. .He can land a good contract somewhere. Unless we decide to dump Sendejo and keep him but I doubt it. Kearse has turned into Zim's version of Iloka now. Harris would be the one to get back. OL is going to need a re-build for the most part. Especially at the guard position so I would think we draft there. Sherels can come back on a minimum deal. Same with Tom Johnson I would think. Or Jaleel improves along with Holmes and we go that route. Robinson is whatever. Backup QB, we can find someone similar to Siemien. Wile is replaceable. And FB's are a dime a dozen. The main thing is OL. I wouldnt mind keeping a guy like Jones for depth. Hill can walk for all I care. Same with Compton (or at best depth).

I say priorities are as follows for in house guys:

1.) Richardson
2.) Murray
3.) Harris
4.) Bailey
5.) Jones
6.) Johnson
7.) Sherels
8.) Compton, Easton (cant trust him after 2 major injuries), Robinson, Wile, Hill, Ham, Siemien, etc

X.) Iloka only if we let Sendejo walk.

This is far from being on of those years where we will have to let a bunch of studs walk. It shows us with about 10-12 million in cap space (based on spotrac and overthecap) going into next years offseason. This will also be dependent on veterans that we let go. Bryzinski is a cap genius. So I'm not worried. Like I said if we had guys like Hunter, Thielen, Diggs and Cook all up for contracts and were hurting on cap space, then yeah, I'd be worried. But this is more than manageable I think. Especially with Bryzinski. Philly has gone into the past few offseason with under $1 million in cap or even in the negative and still make it work for the most part. It's definitely doable

Where is Barr?

I didn’t figure him in because I think he’s a goner. I don’t want to resign him to be honest

[Pondering Her Percy]

And dont you think that having the 7th total rushing offense in the NFL last year compared to the 32nd (for the first four games, 29th now) ranked rushing offense in the league drastically skews those stats? Yeah. Every single one of them. And like I said, Kirk Cousins doesnt run the football.



New Orleans has the #1 run defense in the league. Yeah pass defense is brutal but their defense isnt "one of the worst in football". The Cardinals have the 7th best pass defense in the league. The Lions have the 4th best pass defense. The Bills have the #3 pass defense. Green Bay is 10th. The Rams have been brutal lately but are still 14th (which is better than some think because they are always leading and always getting thrown at). The Cardinals and the Lions are both sitting in the top 5 when it comes to passing yards given up on the year. GB and Buf are sitting in the top 10 in that category. So dont sit there and act like all these pass defense were bad. They are actually very good defenses when it comes to defending the pass.



My god dude.....

Teddy "could" become better than Cousins....based off what? Judging Cousins off of him playing in backup duties isnt a true tell. I look at when QBs actually become the starter. Cousins 2nd year starting was his best season ever nearly passing for 5,000 yards and making the playoffs. Every year Teddy was starting we were bottom 5 in passing yards and rode on the coat tails of Adrian Peterson and a decent defense. He was nearly averaging a 1:1 TD:INT ratio over his first two years of starting. 28 TDs and 21 INTs compared to Cousins having 52 TDs and 25 INTs in his first two years. 5,000 yards compared to 9,000 yards. I mean this isnt even comparable dude. Teddy wasnt a good QB prior to the injury let alone after his injury. He was the epitome of a game manager. If Teddy was legit before going down, that's one thing you have going for you. But he wasnt. At all. He couldnt have been more mediocre.

Not many people want Anthony Barr back. Nor has he been relevant the last few years. So nobody is begging to re-sign him. Find a freak LB in the draft. And Josh Sitton? 1.) he's old and 2.) he lasted 1 game this year and tore his shoulder up. He's literally hurt all the time. He hasnt played a full season since 2015. We need to draft offensive lineman is what we need to do. We have enough money invested in Remmers and Reiff. We can get Sheldon Richardson back with this current cap. Barr can walk for all I care. And we need to draft and OLB and interior OL in the draft.

But again, you trying to defend us passing on Cousins and going for Teddy is just laughable. Nobody is going to buy that. At all. So you're wasting your time and energy defending it.

The passing yards and passing TDs are a direct result of the poor run game. When teams can't get it done on the ground, they throw short passes to compensate, padding the passing stats. When they can't punch it into the end zone, teams throw in red zone more, leading to the QB throwing more passing TDs. TB and Atlanta are right there with MN in rushing YPG and are 1 and 2 in passing yards. They are also both significantly better on offense, so it is possible to score points without a run game (TB and Atlanta are 11th and 4th in scoring). Harder, but certainly possible.

Yea, the Vikings have faced a murderers row of passing defenses.

Lol dude you’re digging now. Murray has been a beast in the red zone. Cousins stats are far from “padded”. He’s playing like a top 10 QB. But it pains you to admit that clearly. You’ve dug yourself too deep of a hole at this point and not one person on here agrees with you.

Atlanta and Tampa are also below .500. Vikings are not. That argument proves nothing.

As for the pass defense comment, just because a teams record is bad doesn’t mean they can’t have a good pass defense. It’s actually more impressive when those teams are still in the top 10 because they don’t have many weeks where they win, which means points are being put up on them but still playing well vs the pass. Numbers don’t lie dude. Most of them are top pass defenses just like I proved.

But either way, somehow you think if we had “Teddy and a solid backup” we’d have a better record or beat the rams or saints. Do you actually believe Teddy would’ve made our running game any better? Or even more laughable, our passing game better? Come on man just give it a rest.

[808vikingsfan]

But either way, somehow you think if we had “Teddy and a solid backup” we’d have a better record or beat the rams or saints. Do you actually believe Teddy would’ve made our running game any better? Or even more laughable, our passing game better? Come on man just give it a rest.

Not really following your discussion but just a comment on the above. I don't think it's far fetched at all that this team could be 5-3-1 or better with Teddy (or Keenum) at QB. A qb that can extend plays, make plays when necessary can do wonders for a team. 49ers, Bills, Eagles, Cardinals, Lions, maybe even the Packers game. I can see the Vikings winning with Bridgewater (assuming he's healthy with a full camp), or Keenum at QB. . And don't forget the fact that this team loved and respected Bridgewater. I know it shouldn't, but it may make a linemen hold his block a half second longer... With half the season gone, I'm still not sold on Cousins. I hope he wins me over in the next 4 weeks.

[UKno1VIKING]

But either way, somehow you think if we had “Teddy and a solid backup” we’d have a better record or beat the rams or saints. Do you actually believe Teddy would’ve made our running game any better? Or even more laughable, our passing game better? Come on man just give it a rest.

Not really following your discussion but just a comment on the above. I don't think it's far fetched at all that this team could be 5-3-1 or better with Teddy (or Keenum) at QB. A qb that can extend plays, make plays when necessary can do wonders for a team. 49ers, Bills, Eagles, Cardinals, Lions, maybe even the Packers game. I can see the Vikings winning with Bridgewater (assuming he's healthy with a full camp), or Keenum at QB. . And don't forget the fact that this team loved and respected Bridgewater. I know it shouldn't, but it may make a linemen hold his block a half second longer... With half the season gone, I'm still not sold on Cousins. I hope he wins me over in the next 4 weeks.

It's an interesting take that the players would perform better for Teddy or Case. The rumblings coming out from the team, are that Cousins is very much respected already. Listening to Diggs spout off about him sounds genuine enough. I imagine that is why he was given the role of leading the pre-game huddle (and wow do i enjoy listening to him do that).
We can only assume about his popularity, one way or another. But there's no doubt, as far as talent is concerned, he is a big upgrade.
And for me, we wouldn't have 5 wins without him. Especially when the D wasn't firing. Watching him lead this offence, with the D seemingly sorting themselves out, is an exciting prospect to say the least.

[StumpHunter]

Not really following your discussion but just a comment on the above. I don't think it's far fetched at all that this team could be 5-3-1 or better with Teddy (or Keenum) at QB. A qb that can extend plays, make plays when necessary can do wonders for a team. 49ers, Bills, Eagles, Cardinals, Lions, maybe even the Packers game. I can see the Vikings winning with Bridgewater (assuming he's healthy with a full camp), or Keenum at QB. . And don't forget the fact that this team loved and respected Bridgewater. I know it shouldn't, but it may make a linemen hold his block a half second longer... With half the season gone, I'm still not sold on Cousins. I hope he wins me over in the next 4 weeks.

It's an interesting take that the players would perform better for Teddy or Case. The rumblings coming out from the team, are that Cousins is very much respected already. Listening to Diggs spout off about him sounds genuine enough. I imagine that is why he was given the role of leading the pre-game huddle (and wow do i enjoy listening to him do that).
We can only assume about his popularity, one way or another. But there's no doubt, as far as talent is concerned, he is a big upgrade.
And for me, we wouldn't have 5 wins without him. Especially when the D wasn't firing. Watching him lead this offence, with the D seemingly sorting themselves out, is an exciting prospect to say the least.

Let's examine the wins so far, and you tell me where our 11-5 and 13-3 QBs wouldn't have won.

SF - defense held them to 16 and SF has one of the worst defenses in football. Tell me why Case or Teddy couldn't win that?
GB - 2015 Teddy and Case probably don't keep this game close. .5 games for Cousins.
Buf - The offense lost us this game. 10 Pts off of turnovers and no pts until garbage time for the Vikings. Mostly because the line was playing bad, but Cousins also struggled to avoid the rush and played poorly. -1 win for Cousins.
LA - Defense played bad, offense played great. Still a loss.
Eagles - Eagles only managed 14 pts until garbage time. Case or Teddy could have easily won that game.
AZ The worst team in football
Jets - The second worst team in football
Saints - Kirk didn't play well in that game and it was a loss. I won't claim Teddy or Case would have won it, though.
Detroit.- I could have QB'd the team to a win in that game.

Yea, Kirk is having a huge impact so far.

[Pondering Her Percy]

But either way, somehow you think if we had “Teddy and a solid backup” we’d have a better record or beat the rams or saints. Do you actually believe Teddy would’ve made our running game any better? Or even more laughable, our passing game better? Come on man just give it a rest.

Not really following your discussion but just a comment on the above. I don't think it's far fetched at all that this team could be 5-3-1 or better with Teddy (or Keenum) at QB. A qb that can extend plays, make plays when necessary can do wonders for a team. 49ers, Bills, Eagles, Cardinals, Lions, maybe even the Packers game. I can see the Vikings winning with Bridgewater (assuming he's healthy with a full camp), or Keenum at QB. . And don't forget the fact that this team loved and respected Bridgewater. I know it shouldn't, but it may make a linemen hold his block a half second longer... With half the season gone, I'm still not sold on Cousins. I hope he wins me over in the next 4 weeks.

I guess my point is, what did Teddy ever show that made anyone think he could carry an offense? Adrian Peterson carried the offense. And we were bottom of the barrel in pass offense every year Teddy was the starter. I loved Teddy too. I get it, he's a nice guy and everyone loves him, but he was a mediocre QB at best. As hard as some fans on here have been regarding Vikings QBs in the last decade, why do fans continue to back Teddy? It just doesnt add up. He threw a career 28:23 TD:INT and barely broke 3,000 yards one year and was below 3,000 his first year. I wouldnt even call the guy a "winner". Not saying he wasn't a winner but he had one winning season and it was carried by Adrian Peterson and an improved defense. But since "he can run/make plays" that would make us better? I dont see it. He doesnt have the run game that he had with AP and in turn, he would have to carry the weight on his shoulders more when it came to the passing game. I dont understand how anyone can think he would do that? He NEVER once showed it.

There was ONE game, in 33 career games, where he threw more than 2 TD passes. ONE. Against the 5-11 Bears at the end of the year when they were beat and well out of playoff contention. Sorry but that is NOT good. I love the guy, he's awesome, but he is a mediocre NFL QB. Period. No less he was out of football for how long? And we somehow think he could make a comeback vs. GB like Cousins did? Or run toe to toe with the Rams? Without a run game? Sorry, not a chance.

As for Keenum, he couldnt be trusted. Simple as that. His career was absolutely brutal up until last year. One year he had. So I dont blame this organization one bit by letting him go. It was smart. He has 10 TDs and 10 INTs this year in Denver. With pretty good WRs and a decent defense. Sure he had a good rapport with Diggs and AT but so could anyone. Cousins obviously does. Even better than what Keenum had.

I feel like with some fans, if Cousins didnt come in here and lead us to 9-0 or 8-1 at the bye, he wasnt worth the money. If he doesnt bring us to a SB, he's not worth the money. It's 10 weeks into his first season with us. We have the pieces around him. There wasnt a better QB out there. This is why I was excited to get Cousins but annoyed at the same time because everyone expects him to just repeat Keenums luck last year. It's not that easy. How many teams in this league make it to back to back conference championships outside of the Patriots? Especially in the NFC! And please dont sit there and tell me Keenum or Bridgewater would.

As for the players liking Teddy, I really am blown away that you even mentioned that. Do you honestly believe that an offensive lineman will possibly hold their block for a half second longer for Teddy but not Cousins? Seriously? There hasnt been even the slightest sign that this locker room doesnt love and respect Cousins. But since guys felt sorry for Teddy with what happened and love him as a person you think an offensive lineman could hold a block longer? Do you really believe offensive lineman think, "hey we love Teddy and dont love Kirk as much so I'm going to try that much harder on this play?" Come on man, you're digging now. Sold on Cousins or not, that will never be the case where offensive lineman arent working hard for him and would work harder for another QB. Sorry but that is just laughable

[StumpHunter]

Not really following your discussion but just a comment on the above. I don't think it's far fetched at all that this team could be 5-3-1 or better with Teddy (or Keenum) at QB. A qb that can extend plays, make plays when necessary can do wonders for a team. 49ers, Bills, Eagles, Cardinals, Lions, maybe even the Packers game. I can see the Vikings winning with Bridgewater (assuming he's healthy with a full camp), or Keenum at QB. . And don't forget the fact that this team loved and respected Bridgewater. I know it shouldn't, but it may make a linemen hold his block a half second longer... With half the season gone, I'm still not sold on Cousins. I hope he wins me over in the next 4 weeks.

I guess my point is, what did Teddy ever show that made anyone think he could carry an offense? Adrian Peterson carried the offense. And we were bottom of the barrel in pass offense every year Teddy was the starter. I loved Teddy too. I get it, he's a nice guy and everyone loves him, but he was a mediocre QB at best. As hard as some fans on here have been regarding Vikings QBs in the last decade, why do fans continue to back Teddy? It just doesnt add up. He threw a career 28:23 TD:INT and barely broke 3,000 yards one year and was below 3,000 his first year. I wouldnt even call the guy a "winner". Not saying he wasn't a winner but he had one winning season and it was carried by Adrian Peterson and an improved defense. But since "he can run/make plays" that would make us better? I dont see it. He doesnt have the run game that he had with AP and in turn, he would have to carry the weight on his shoulders more when it came to the passing game. I dont understand how anyone can think he would do that? He NEVER once showed it.

There was ONE game, in 33 career games, where he threw more than 2 TD passes. ONE. Against the 5-11 Bears at the end of the year when they were beat and well out of playoff contention. Sorry but that is NOT good. I love the guy, he's awesome, but he is a mediocre NFL QB. Period. No less he was out of football for how long? And we somehow think he could make a comeback vs. GB like Cousins did? Or run toe to toe with the Rams? Without a run game? Sorry, not a chance.

As for Keenum, he couldnt be trusted. Simple as that. His career was absolutely brutal up until last year. One year he had. So I dont blame this organization one bit by letting him go. It was smart. He has 10 TDs and 10 INTs this year in Denver. With pretty good WRs and a decent defense. Sure he had a good rapport with Diggs and AT but so could anyone. Cousins obviously does. Even better than what Keenum had.

I feel like with some fans, if Cousins didnt come in here and lead us to 9-0 or 8-1 at the bye, he wasnt worth the money. If he doesnt bring us to a SB, he's not worth the money. It's 10 weeks into his first season with us. We have the pieces around him. There wasnt a better QB out there. This is why I was excited to get Cousins but annoyed at the same time because everyone expects him to just repeat Keenums luck last year. It's not that easy. How many teams in this league make it to back to back conference championships outside of the Patriots? Especially in the NFC! And please dont sit there and tell me Keenum or Bridgewater would.

As for the players liking Teddy, I really am blown away that you even mentioned that. Do you honestly believe that an offensive lineman will possibly hold their block for a half second longer for Teddy but not Cousins? Seriously? There hasnt been even the slightest sign that this locker room doesnt love and respect Cousins. But since guys felt sorry for Teddy with what happened and love him as a person you think an offensive lineman could hold a block longer? Do you really believe offensive lineman think, "hey we love Teddy and dont love Kirk as much so I'm going to try that much harder on this play?" Come on man, you're digging now. Sold on Cousins or not, that will never be the case where offensive lineman arent working hard for him and would work harder for another QB. Sorry but that is just laughable

So you were all about replacing Teddy after the 2015 season? During the 2017 season, did you see all the flaws in Keenum that you see now? Or were you excited to see what Teddy could do in his second full season after a promising sophomore year? Did you clamor for extending Keenum even after the debacle in Philly?

Let's face it, those were both great options to you until they either got hurt, or signed elsewhere. Then suddenly they suck. Weird how that works.

[Pondering Her Percy]

It's an interesting take that the players would perform better for Teddy or Case. The rumblings coming out from the team, are that Cousins is very much respected already. Listening to Diggs spout off about him sounds genuine enough. I imagine that is why he was given the role of leading the pre-game huddle (and wow do i enjoy listening to him do that).
We can only assume about his popularity, one way or another. But there's no doubt, as far as talent is concerned, he is a big upgrade.
And for me, we wouldn't have 5 wins without him. Especially when the D wasn't firing. Watching him lead this offence, with the D seemingly sorting themselves out, is an exciting prospect to say the least.

Let's examine the wins so far, and you tell me where our 11-5 and 13-3 QBs wouldn't have won.

SF - defense held them to 16 and SF has one of the worst defenses in football. Tell me why Case or Teddy couldn't win that?
GB - 2015 Teddy and Case probably don't keep this game close. .5 games for Cousins.
Buf - The offense lost us this game. 10 Pts off of turnovers and no pts until garbage time for the Vikings. Mostly because the line was playing bad, but Cousins also struggled to avoid the rush and played poorly. -1 win for Cousins.
LA - Defense played bad, offense played great. Still a loss.
Eagles - Eagles only managed 14 pts until garbage time. Case or Teddy could have easily won that game.
AZ The worst team in football
Jets - The second worst team in football
Saints - Kirk didn't play well in that game and it was a loss. I won't claim Teddy or Case would have won it, though.
Detroit.- I could have QB'd the team to a win in that game.

Yea, Kirk is having a huge impact so far.

Again, you're basing your analysis off record. Which is also what you're so hung up on with everything else.

-SF has nowhere near the "worst defense in football". They are 10th in total defense.
-GB, yeah not even close with Teddy or Case
-Buffalo was getting to Cousins before he even hit the back of his drop. Yeah there were a couple plays he could've gotten rid of it but I say time and time again, Cousins isnt a stiff like Eli in the pocket. He can move. Not as well as Teddy or Case but the guy can run. This OL, especially that game, was considerably worse than last years. With how bad Reiff was playing and how bad Hill already is, Cousins was getting killed. Also, last I remember, Teddy was strip sacked on TWO potential game tying drives his last full season. Denver and Arizona. But he can "make plays"?
-LA, yeah maybe a loss, but we had a chance to win the game is the point. Teddy and Case wouldnt have been in that position.
-Phi, winnable for them I guess. Again, who know how they wouldve performed. Look at Case vs Philly last year. Threw a pick 6.
-Arz, weaker team with an excellent pass defense. Again, who knows. They just held KC to 26 points. Lowest on the year!
-NYJ, weak team all around
-Saints, a game that came down to a fumble inside the 10
-Lions, another team with a top 10 pass defense.

Point being, I explained before that we have played some good pass defensive teams. Teddy, the QB you keep raving about, was a below average passer. Has been his whole career. Keenum, a better passer but a turnover machine. Outside of his one year of 22:7, he was nearly 1:1 on his career when it came to TD/INT along with wildly inconsistent throws, which showed at times last season and is showing this year in Denver. So what makes you believe these guys would play well against better pass defenses? Nothing. That is why this argument is irrelevant and makes no sense. Cousins is a better pure passer than either of those two by quite a large margin. So there is nothing that tells me Teddy or Case would have beat or kept us in all of these games. Especially against better pass defenses.

Think about it, how many wins did Teddy carry us in because of his passing ability outside of Chicago in 2015? Go look at Teddy's stats and APs stats next to each other. Every game we lost that year, AP was under 80 yards rushing (3 of them under 45 yards). Every game we won, AP was over 98 outside of Chicago and GB at the end of the year (where Teddy threw for a putrid 99 yards that game). Teddy had 3 TDs and 2 INTs in our 5 losses. Point is, he couldnt carry the team when AP couldnt get going. It was obvious. So if he couldnt carry a team without a running game, how do you think he could possibly have us at 5-3-1 or better with how our running game and defense was playing early in the year? That's why your argument carries little weight

[Pondering Her Percy]

So you were all about replacing Teddy after the 2015 season? During the 2017 season, did you see all the flaws in Keenum that you see now? Or were you excited to see what Teddy could do in his second full season after a promising sophomore year? Did you clamor for extending Keenum even after the debacle in Philly?

Let's face it, those were both great options to you until they either got hurt, or signed elsewhere. Then suddenly they suck. Weird how that works.

Dude, no I wasnt asking to "replace Teddy" after 2015. I dont want anyone to be replaced after their 2nd year. I said it for Waynes, Treadwell, etc. But I definitely voiced my opinion on him during that year. Because it didnt look promising. He didnt really improve from year 1 to year 2. And knowing that he wasnt really carrying us that year, that didnt help either. It was all AP. But then Teddy suffers a traumatic injury and hasnt started a game since. So, he was mediocre at best last time he was on the field and hasnt played in 3 years. Yeah, that isnt a good option for the potential SB roster we currently have. Period.

As for Keenum, did I notice the flaws? The question is, did you not know his history prior to last year? Because I sure did. My father is a Rams fan so I watch a lot of their games. Keenums flaws were no secret to anyone. Given what he is doing this year in Denver, is no secret. But it's NOT solely why I was saying I didnt trust him. Case Keenum was NOT a good QB in this league for 5 straight years. All Denver has done is prove he was a one year wonder and shows his inconsistencies. It proved to be true. Just like I was saying all along this offseason when I said, let Keenum walk and sign Cousins. Mike Zimmer himself said that to the media. He said "I dont know if I'll get the Case of last year or the Case of 3 years ago". Everybody knew I guess except you.

So no, neither were "great options" for me. Go back and look at my posts in 2015 regarding Teddy and last offseason regarding Case. You think you know what I was saying regarding them but clearly you dont. I had my fair share of ripping into both of them. I didnt trust Keenum at all given his history and sure as hell didnt trust Teddy after a below average first 2 years and then an injury that then kept him out 2 full seasons. You say "and then suddenly they suck" No! They were never good to begin with! What's sad is you somehow think that two below average QBs are great options for a SB caliber roster They are far from "great options". Giant question marks is what they are.

[StumpHunter]

Let's examine the wins so far, and you tell me where our 11-5 and 13-3 QBs wouldn't have won.

SF - defense held them to 16 and SF has one of the worst defenses in football. Tell me why Case or Teddy couldn't win that?
GB - 2015 Teddy and Case probably don't keep this game close. .5 games for Cousins.
Buf - The offense lost us this game. 10 Pts off of turnovers and no pts until garbage time for the Vikings. Mostly because the line was playing bad, but Cousins also struggled to avoid the rush and played poorly. -1 win for Cousins.
LA - Defense played bad, offense played great. Still a loss.
Eagles - Eagles only managed 14 pts until garbage time. Case or Teddy could have easily won that game.
AZ The worst team in football
Jets - The second worst team in football
Saints - Kirk didn't play well in that game and it was a loss. I won't claim Teddy or Case would have won it, though.
Detroit.- I could have QB'd the team to a win in that game.

Yea, Kirk is having a huge impact so far.

Again, you're basing your analysis off record. Which is also what you're so hung up on with everything else.

-SF has nowhere near the "worst defense in football". They are 10th in total defense.
-GB, yeah not even close with Teddy or Case
-Buffalo was getting to Cousins before he even hit the back of his drop. Yeah there were a couple plays he could've gotten rid of it but I say time and time again, Cousins isnt a stiff like Eli in the pocket. He can move. Not as well as Teddy or Case but the guy can run. This OL, especially that game, was considerably worse than last years. With how bad Reiff was playing and how bad Hill already is, Cousins was getting killed. Also, last I remember, Teddy was strip sacked on TWO potential game tying drives his last full season. Denver and Arizona. But he can "make plays"?
-LA, yeah maybe a loss, but we had a chance to win the game is the point. Teddy and Case wouldnt have been in that position.
-Phi, winnable for them I guess. Again, who know how they wouldve performed. Look at Case vs Philly last year. Threw a pick 6.
-Arz, weaker team with an excellent pass defense. Again, who knows
-NYJ, weak team all around
-Saints, a game that came down to a fumble inside the 10
-Lions, another team with a top 10 pass defense.

Point being, I explained before that we have played some good pass defensive teams. Teddy, the QB you keep raving about, was a below average passer. Has been his whole career. Keenum, a better passer but a turnover machine. Outside of his one year of 22:7, he was nearly 1:1 on his career when it came to TD/INT along with wildly inconsistent throws, which showed at times last season and is showing this year in Denver. So what makes you believe these guys would play well against better pass defenses? Nothing. That is why this argument is irrelevant and makes no sense. Cousins is a better pure passer than either of those two by quite a large margin. So there is nothing that tells me Teddy or Case would have beat or kept us in all of these games. Especially against better pass defenses.

Think about it, how many wins did Teddy carry us in because of his passing ability outside of Chicago in 2015? Go look at Teddy's stats and APs stats next to each other. Every game we lost that year, AP was under 80 yards rushing (3 of them under 45 yards). Every game we won, AP was over 98 outside of Chicago and GB at the end of the year (where Teddy threw for a putrid 99 yards that game). Teddy had 3 TDs and 2 INTs in our 5 losses. Point is, he couldnt carry the team when AP couldnt get going. It was obvious. So if he couldnt carry a team without a running game, how do you think he could possibly have us at 5-3-1 or better with how our running game and defense was playing early in the year? That's why your argument carries little weight

You need to stop claiming things like "SF is a top 10 defense". They are the 26th worst scoring defense in the NFL. How is that top 10? AZ holds a lot of teams to low passing yards because they are horrible against the run and teams get an early lead and grind it out. Detroit is 28th in pts given up but are a good defense? What?

In the 9 games AP didn't get go over 100 yards in 2015, Teddy threw for 120+ more yards per game and twice as many TDs. Against some of the ACTUAL best defenses in the NFL that year, since for the most part, only the good defenses could stop AP. Teddy has never played in a passing offense as good as the ones Cousins has played in his entire career. Ever. Apples to oranges. If you want to compare Keenum to Cousins, two guys with years in the NFL, playing in essentially the same offense, that is fair, but we have no idea what Teddy could have done in an actual decent passing offense. I know he sure looked good at the end of his rookie year without AP.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You need to stop claiming things like "SF is a top 10 defense". They are the 26th worst scoring defense in the NFL. How is that top 10? AZ holds a lot of teams to low passing yards because they are horrible against the run and teams get an early lead and grind it out. Detroit is 28th in pts given up but are a good defense? What?

In the 9 games AP didn't get go over 100 yards in 2015, Teddy threw for 120+ more yards per game and twice as many TDs. Against some of the ACTUAL best defenses in the NFL that year, since for the most part, only the good defenses could stop AP. Teddy has never played in a passing offense as good as the ones Cousins has played in his entire career. Ever. Apples to oranges. If you want to compare Keenum to Cousins, two guys with years in the NFL, playing in essentially the same offense, that is fair, but we have no idea what Teddy could have done in an actual decent passing offense. I know he sure looked good at the end of his rookie year without AP.

You said it, we have "no idea what Teddy would look like". But that is a good option to start on a SB caliber roster? So IF he does well from a passing standpoint (which he has never done) we look like geniuses but IF he flops, we completely waste our SB window and go back to square one looking for a QB. No different than Keenum. Cousins has never been so bad where a new QB was needed. Enough said. I'm done arguing with you.

[StumpHunter]

Cousins has never been so bad where a new QB was needed. Enough said. I'm done arguing with you.

Except in his first three seasons. Teddy didn't lose his starting gig because of his play on the field, but keep telling yourself that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Cousins has never been so bad where a new QB was needed. Enough said. I'm done arguing with you.

Except in his first three seasons. Teddy didn't lose his starting gig because of his play on the field, but keep telling yourself that.

uh, did I ever once say that's why Teddy lost his job? READ the post. I'm a Vikings fan pal. Pretty sure I know why Teddy wasnt our starter when he got back. I said that Cousins was never so bad where a new QB was needed AFTER I mentioned Case Keenum. Case Keenum could never hold down a starting gig anywhere. Nothing to do with Teddy.....but keep telling yourself that. Either way, time to hop off the Teddy train. He's "back to full health" and still isnt a starter anywhere. If he was so good, teams would have pushed harder to sign him outside of just the Jets. Teams were "interested" but nobody threw any offers out there except NY.....weird. So quit digging for anything you find to be misworded in my posts, and drop the argument. I told you I was done. You should be as well