Turner expects Adrian Peterson to find his stride

[Mothman]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I think he could do better within those constraints too ... but they do limit the possibilities.

Definitely!

[mansquatch]

I think the limitations of the offensive line, the overarching philosophy of minimizing turnovers, and the fact that his best player is a running back, limit what Norv calls.

This is what i think is likely closest to the truth. In 2012 they relished 8 man fronts since they knew that if AP broke through the LOS he'd bust out double digit yards. (AP talked about this leading into the game against the Rams that season) For some reason they haven't been able to replicate that. My guess is the OL woes are a major reason for this.

I like to think about this in terms of Points Per Game, so here is my arm chair analysis:

As I said in a previous thread, I think it is unlikely that AP's production over the course of the season will be equal to last Sunday. In other words, that was a down game. I think AP will revert so kind of mean for the season, while probably means an additional 40-60 more yards per game and possible 0.5-1 TD. IMO this translates to 4-7 PPG. I think this is a very likely outcome over the course of the season, given AP's long history of productivity. This might even be conservative.

Our kicker also left 7 points on the field on Sunday, I really HOPE that is also not normal, but makes me nervous. I think in conjunction with the above Rushing stuff generating 1 more opportunity per game, but also equaling TD, that this probably equals 3 PPG assuming he fixes his crap.

To me these above items are "low hanging fruit" and should be addressed quickly. That conservatively equals 7 PPG, which offset 50% of the Defensive scores from last week.

The next question is what more do we get out of the QB? I'm not sure, but I have to think that if AP reverts to the mean (IMO, this is the most likely outcome given his history) that will aid the QB production in some way. However, this is the same question we've been asking all year. Time will tell. However, in our favor, last game the QB gave us ZERO scores. If Hill/Bradford average just 1 TD the rest of the season that is a 15 TD passing season. That is an extremely low mark for an NFL QB. (Of course, TB only gave us 14 last year...) So 7 PPG is not unreasonable here. The real question is if it can be stretched to 10 PPG?

I'm obviously glazing over a lit of minutia here, but to me a championship run would require the kicking and RB to get back to "normal" and the QB giving us the 10PPG. Ideally we want to see the offense in the 25-27PPG and the Defense under 20 PA.

[losperros]

I think the limitations of the offensive line, the overarching philosophy of minimizing turnovers, and the fact that his best player is a running back, limit what Norv calls.

All true, Cliff, but here's the deal. During the first game, we saw a QB get rid of the ball quickly and connect with Diggs, Thielen, Patterson and Rudolph. And without getting intercepted or sacked. It can be done.

I'm with Jim on this. Yes, there are some limitations but more creative playcalling can work, and it will help AD and the team. In my view, so will sticking with the WRs we saw in the first game. As for Diggs, he is the #1 WR (if one is truly needed).

[J. Kapp 11]

Last week, the first half was 2015 San Francisco all over again. Hot garbage in all phases. Zimmer got the ship righted in the second half, for the most part, so I think any analysis of the Vikings' performance and how that bodes for the future needs to be based on the second half. We aren't (hopefully) going to see many more performances like the first half.

And that's not being Pollyanna because the second-half performance was far from perfect. Namely, the running game stunk, and the red-zone offense peed down its leg. The passing game, save for the red zone, was pretty darned efficient.

So to me, Norv's comments seem a little goofy. Shaun Hill completed 10 passes that were thrown more than 10 yards down the field, which was about half a season's worth for Teddy last year. That's an exaggeration, of course, but not by much. Heck, I'd take 10 chunk plays per game from the passing attack.

Seems to me that the RUNNING GAME needs to improve to better support the passing game.

[Mothman]

Last week, the first half was 2015 San Francisco all over again. Hot garbage in all phases. Zimmer got the ship righted in the second half, for the most part, so I think any analysis of the Vikings' performance and how that bodes for the future needs to be based on the second half. We aren't (hopefully) going to see many more performances like the first half.

And that's not being Pollyanna because the second-half performance was far from perfect. Namely, the running game stunk, and the red-zone offense peed down its leg. The passing game, save for the red zone, was pretty darned efficient.

So to me, Norv's comments seem a little goofy. Shaun Hill completed 10 passes that were thrown more than 10 yards down the field, which was about half a season's worth for Teddy last year. That's an exaggeration, of course, but not by much. Heck, I'd take 10 chunk plays per game from the passing attack.

Seems to me that the RUNNING GAME needs to improve to better support the passing game.

I suppose you could look at it that way. In the end, they need to be complementary but I think the intense effort the Titans were making to stop the run is one of the main reasons the passing game managed what it did last weekend.

They both need to improve. I do like that Hill attacked down the field and I hope Bradford will do likewise when he gets in there.

[losperros]

I do like that Hill attacked down the field and I hope Bradford will do likewise when he gets in there.

I hope the coaches will do likewise.

Any one-note offensive attack will suffer if the Vikings field half an offense, even if it's a running game with AD. The passing game needs to be there.

[Mothman]

I hope the coaches will do likewise.

Any one-note offensive attack will suffer if the Vikings field half an offense, even if it's a running game with AD. The passing game needs to be there.

Yes, and not just within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage!

[jackal]

I was listening to the podcast last night and Zimmer and Turner thinking is.. if the box gets loaded
and stop running we let the other team control what we do? I'm like really running for 31 yards in
a game and no touchdowns? Yeah we really showed them we are stubborn and can run for two yards
per carry, a lot. Have Diggs and whoever run down the field and exploit the weakness they are showing you.

Its not the 70's NFL anymore... Geez

[mike2mike]

Probably because neither one is really trained to be a lead blocker for the other so putting them both back there likely takes an effective run blocker out of the play. I rarely see any NFL team use two halfbacks at once.

That's my theory anyway.

Yeah, that's mostly true but there are a limited number of ways around it... if you use misdirections and fakes, the mere action of running the guy without the ball one direction will be in essence blocking the unblocked backside contain guy. I'd also think a double screen would be effective since if the defense over commits to one more the other will get the ball with an overwhelming advantage.
You can also use very high percentage pass plays to RBs (swing passes) and get them the ball in space.

You can also use 2WR,1TE,2RB and motion McKinnon to be the 3rd WR in the slot.

But it's not a good power run formation except on misdirection if say you say motion McKinnon to slot, then put him in motion as a jet or end around play with Adrian as an inside run action and give it to either and fake the other or fake both and pass, or read options off of either.

[IIsweet]

My theory...
Norv is not prepared ! He has been an OC or HC for like 15-20 years. This means that he doesn't put the same time in to game plan. He has done it so many times before. He remembers vividly the 3yards and a cloud of dust days.
He reverts to his comfort zone and can justify it all day. That what he knows.
Today's game is not what his strength is.

[Mothman]

Yeah, that's mostly true but there are a limited number of ways around it... if you use misdirections and fakes, the mere action of running the guy without the ball one direction will be in essence blocking the unblocked backside contain guy. I'd also think a double screen would be effective since if the defense over commits to one more the other will get the ball with an overwhelming advantage.
You can also use very high percentage pass plays to RBs (swing passes) and get them the ball in space.

You can also use 2WR,1TE,2RB and motion McKinnon to be the 3rd WR in the slot.

But it's not a good power run formation except on misdirection if say you say motion McKinnon to slot, then put him in motion as a jet or end around play with Adrian as an inside run action and give it to either and fake the other or fake both and pass, or read options off of either.

I agree, there are ways to make it work but overall, I think they amount to specialty packages, a subset of plays like those described above. However, there's no reason they couldn't do that once in a while. My comment was meant to address why we don't see two halfbacks as a base set frequently.

[losperros]

I was listening to the podcast last night and Zimmer and Turner thinking is.. if the box gets loaded
and stop running we let the other team control what we do? I'm like really running for 31 yards in
a game and no touchdowns? Yeah we really showed them we are stubborn and can run for two yards
per carry, a lot. Have Diggs and whoever run down the field and exploit the weakness they are showing you.

Its not the 70's NFL anymore... Geez

Exactly. The outmoded one-dimensional "three yards and a cloud of dust" routine worked for Big Ten college ball at one time.

It can't be a close-minded philosophy for today's NFL.

[chicagopurple]

NOT........another injury year.......time to move on I think....willing or not.....

[IrishViking]

Depends on how serious the injury is. It could be