What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

The season is officially over, and Denver has hoisted the trophy that few thought they'd ever touch. For most pundits, it wasn't a matter of IF the Panthers would win -- it was a matter of "how much would they win by." They were wrong.

I think there are some parallels here that can give us Vikings fans some hope.

1. Denver won with great defense.
The old adage "defense wins championships" proved true again. Of the last 11 teams to go into the Super Bowl with the Number One defense, 10 of them have won.

Vikings takeaway: Vikings brass have placed their top emphasis on building a championship-caliber defense. As we continue to improve defensively, so do our chances of winning a championship.

2. Denver won with a barely functioning offense.
The Broncos did not have a single sustained drive that resulted in a touchdown, yet they won by 14.

Vikings takeaway: I would dare say that the Vikings' offense, even as maddeningly inconsistent as it was in 2015, was better than what we saw on the field for Denver last night. Fix the O-line, and we have a real shot with our defense.

3. Teddy may not have Cam's skill, swagger, or athletic ability, but he has an important strength that Cam doesn't: POISE.
This article says it all. For all Cam's bravado, for all his ability, for all his dancing and showing off, he fell apart when faced with an opponent who would hit him in the mouth.
At 6-foot-5, 245 pounds – with two inches on Miller – he thrives on winning physical confrontations. What would happen if he didn't, though? A guy like Brady has learned to take it, shrug it off and move on. Cam might be different.
Vikings takeaway: This is where Teddy shines. Oh sure, there have been games -- like the first Seattle contest -- where Teddy has gone into a shell. But most of those came as a rookie. And let's not forget that Teddy had one of the best performances of his career in the second half of our game against these same Broncos. That came following a first half where he was knocked around pretty good. The ability to "take it, shrug it off, and move on" could serve Teddy well.

4. This isn't a direct parallel, but let me say this -- Blair Walsh was more of a man than Cam after losing.
Read the transcript of Cam's postgame presser. It'll take you less than 10 seconds.

When Blair Walsh missed the field goal, he answered all questions. He took the heat and manned up. Only after they were done asking him questions did he break down. Cam, as usual, went into a shell when he lost. I'm not a psychic, but I'd say that no Viking would ever do what Cam did after a tough loss. Zimmer's influence is big here. Ron Rivera has been with Cam for five seasons, yet Cam continues to act like a baby when he loses, and a teenager when he wins. That's your Coach of the Year and your MVP.

In summary
I think the Super Bowl yesterday highlights the fact that you can win in this league with a great defense. Obviously, the worse your offense is, the better your defense must be, so it's imperative that the Vikings improve the offense. But given the outcomes of the past several Super Bowls, I feel like the Vikings are on the right track. It may be a passing-scoring league in the regular season, but the further you get in the playoffs, the better your defense must be. And your offense, particularly your quarterback, has to be able to hang tough in the face of those defenses. I like the direction the Vikings are headed.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

Post by The Breeze »

Don't turn the ball over against good teams is what I learned. I'm not convinced the Broncos D was any 'better' than the Panthers D last night....Miller stood out casuing the fumbles for sure. The Broncos got some bounces in what was a very close game...and the Panthers left some plays out there for sure.
Miller did the same thing to TB that he did to Newton last night. Newton's team was in the superbowl...TB's failed to score a TD in a home playoff loss.....and had a critical fumble that legitly cost them the game.
Turnovers in games where the outcomes hinge on one or two plays have been a theme in the past two superbowls and in many of the playoff games leading up to them. The better teams are more evenly matched than ever, and poise and preparedness go a long way.
I'm not about to believe that TB has more or less poise than Newton yet. TB flailed pretty hard in a few non playoff prime time games. It's still pretty hard for me to imagine him hittig guys downfield in stride in the superbowl yet.
But I do agree with your overall positive sentiment, that this team has proven it can play these other teams to the wire....they just have to find whatever it is they need inside them to get over the top in the big moments. Coaches included IMO. It's a good time for Vikes fans!
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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I like the direction the Vikes are headed on defense. I don't like it on offense and I'll have a hard time viewing the team as on the right track until that unit starts looking like it's on the right track.

Regarding Bridgewater: I doubt he would ever react the way Newton did after the game yesterday. However, on the field, Bridgewater doesn't strike me as particularly poised. He had numerous glaring lapses in that department this past season, the kind of lapses that could cost his team dearly in a Super Bowl. He's certainly shown himself capable of being poised and efficient at times and if he was able to play that way in a Super Bowl, it would obviously serve him well.

One of the biggest takeaways I had from yesterday's game was it reinforced how important it is to be strong up front on offense, to be able to run the ball and protect the quarterback. The Panthers couldn't handle the Broncos front and that killed them, despite a good performance from their own defense.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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The Breeze wrote:Don't turn the ball over against good teams is what I learned. I'm not convinced the Broncos D was any 'better' than the Panthers D last night....Miller stood out casuing the fumbles for sure. The Broncos got some bounces in what was a very close game...and the Panthers left some plays out there for sure.
Miller did the same thing to TB that he did to Newton last night. Newton's team was in the superbowl...TB's failed to score a TD in a home playoff loss.....and had a critical fumble that legitly cost them the game.
Turnovers in games where the outcomes hinge on one or two plays have been a theme in the past two superbowls and in many of the playoff games leading up to them. The better teams are more evenly matched than ever, and poise and preparedness go a long way.
I'm not about to believe that TB has more or less poise than Newton yet. TB flailed pretty hard in a few non playoff prime time games. It's still pretty hard for me to imagine him hittig guys downfield in stride in the superbowl yet.
But I do agree with your overall positive sentiment, that this team has proven it can play these other teams to the wire....they just have to find whatever it is they need inside them to get over the top in the big moments. Coaches included IMO. It's a good time for Vikes fans!
I'll agree to a point. But first, let me say that I'm not a Teddy apologist. I agree he has lots of room to improve, and I've been consistent in my remarks to the same.

I'm talking about one specific aspect of the game, which is poise -- and you'll never, ever convince me that Cam has as much poise as Teddy.

Newton's turnovers were a direct result of his lack of poise. After the first strip-sack-TD, Cam came apart at the seams. And it wasn't just the turnovers. His throws were awful. He was backing away as he threw, and I believe it's because he didn't want to expose himself to getting hit. Getting strip-sacked isn't necessarily the QB's fault. The O-line gets beat, and it happens. Miller got him, and Denver scored. But instead of responding like an MVP, Cam went into a shell. It was never more evident than when he didn't even try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter. In fact, he turned away from the ball, even though he was the only Panther in a position to recover it. He was scared.

That's not to say that Teddy is better than Newton, and I never said he was. But I have absolutely no doubt that he is more poised than Cam. He simply doesn't have Cam's physical gifts. Well, guess what? Neither does Brady. Neither does Manning. Plus, Teddy's only been the league two years compared to Cam's five. And you can't possibly blame Teddy for the loss to Seattle. In fact, it was Teddy who did a great job of leading what should have been the game-winning drive. That's about as big a stage as he's been on so far. The only other thing more he could have done was kick the field goal himself.

I agree, it's hard to imagine TB hitting receivers in stride down the field in the Super Bowl, mostly because we haven't seen him do it much in the regular season. It's one of a few areas that he's in dire need of improvement. But there's no denying the fact that TB faced the same Denver defense earlier this season on the road and easily outplayed Cam. Yes, Miller got to him at the end, but Miller gets to everybody. Strip-sacks are going to happen with Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware on the other side, especially when the O-line is as weak as ours. But in the face of enormous pressure, TB brought the Vikings back in that game with a great 2nd-half performance. By comparison, Cam went into a shell, then took his hoodie and went home. Ladies and gentlemen, your NFL Most Valuable Player.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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Mothman wrote:I like the direction the Vikes are headed on defense. I don't like it on offense and I'll have a hard time viewing the team as on the right track until that unit starts looking like it's on the right track.
Totally agree, Jim. In a strange way, the Panthers are the perfect example. They relied on one guy -- Cam -- for an entire season, just as we tend to rely on one guy in AP. When Cam played poorly, they lost. That happens to us more than it should. We need more than just Adrian Peterson, and that means the rest of the offense -- Teddy, the O-line, receivers, Norv, everybody -- needs to step up.

That being said, look at Denver on offense yesterday. They were even more inept than Carolina, yet they won by two TDs. I certainly don't want to have as inept an offense as Denver had yesterday. But the idea that "the NFL is a passing league" and "teams who score a lot of points win Super Bowls" is simply not true. If the Vikings make improvements on offense, they'll contend for the whole thing. They don't have to be The Greatest Show on Turf. They simply need to be better than they are. That, to me, is what Denver showed me.
Mothman wrote:Regarding Bridgewater: I doubt he would ever react the way Newton did after the game yesterday. However, on the field, Bridgewater doesn't strike me as particularly poised. He had numerous glaring lapses in that department this past season, the kind of lapses that could cost his team dearly in a Super Bowl. He's certainly shown himself capable of being poised and efficient at times and if he was able to play that way in a Super Bowl, it would obviously serve him well.
You and I almost never agree on everything, and that's what makes our exchanges fun!

Here's what I'll say. I agree that TB shows poise and efficiency at times, and that includes the clutch. He's just not consistent at it.

That being said, I truly believe he's more poised than Cam. What I saw yesterday was a scared bully. Cam is bigger than half the people who try to tackle him. His on-field bravado stems from the fact that he can out-physical many players who try to stop him. When he couldn't push Denver around yesterday, he collapsed.

It's kind of weird, but quarterbacks who AREN'T great athletes often seem to do very well precisely BECAUSE they can't push people around. They know they're going to get whupped from time to time, and the good ones know how to get off the turf and come right back at you. The Cam Newtons of the world get busted in the mouth and say, "What now? I've got nothing else." In a strange way, Teddy's physical shortcomings may prove to be his ultimate strength.
Mothman wrote:One of the biggest takeaways I had from yesterday's game was it reinforced how important it is to be strong up front on offense, to be able to run the ball and protect the quarterback. The Panthers couldn't handle the Broncos front and that killed them, despite a good performance from their own defense.
Hard to argue this. We've GOT to get better up front on offense. But if we do, I like our chances.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

Post by Cliff »

It's also possible that Teddy being sacked 11 more times on about 50 less attempts factored into him looking skittish at times. Teddy was sacked on 9.8% of his pass attempts. Newton was sacked on about 6.6% of his pass attempts. Out of players with 300+ attempts only Marcus Mariota was sacked on average more than Bridgewater.

I did not realize Bridgewater has more yards per attempt than Newton. Bridgewater only has 4 less completions than Newton despite Newton throwing almost 50 more passes.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Totally agree, Jim. In a strange way, the Panthers are the perfect example. They relied on one guy -- Cam -- for an entire season, just as we tend to rely on one guy in AP. When Cam played poorly, they lost. That happens to us more than it should. We need more than just Adrian Peterson, and that means the rest of the offense -- Teddy, the O-line, receivers, Norv, everybody -- needs to step up.

That being said, look at Denver on offense yesterday. They were even more inept than Carolina, yet they won by two TDs. I certainly don't want to have as inept an offense as Denver had yesterday. But the idea that "the NFL is a passing league" and "teams who score a lot of points win Super Bowls" is simply not true. If the Vikings make improvements on offense, they'll contend for the whole thing. They don't have to be The Greatest Show on Turf. They simply need to be better than they are. That, to me, is what Denver showed me.
I've always said there are many ways to win a Super Bowl so you wont get any argument from me about that. I've never bought into the "it's a passing league" stuff and I wholeheartedly agree that it doesn't take the Greatest Show on Turf to win a Super Bowl. It sure doesn't hurt to have that kind of firepower but it's not necessary.

The Vikes could win with the basic strategy of strong defense and power running they used this year IF they improve enough as a team to make that strategy more effective. As you said, they simply need to better than they are.
You and I almost never agree on everything, and that's what makes our exchanges fun!
I agree. :)
Hard to argue this. We've GOT to get better up front on offense. But if we do, I like our chances.
Same here, especially because I still believe football is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. A dominant OL can be as critical to winning a championship as a dominant defense, especially because it can help effectively counter a dominant defense.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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@Kapp
I just not buying into the rush to castigate Newton. He made numerous throws after the strip sack....predominantly in the 3rd qtr, that were incredible. I don't disagree that he got a rattled look about him at times, but he was a blown call on the first in)completion to Cotchery and an incredible play by Miller on another to Cotchery, from torching that defense for well over 300 yds. A few drops in there too.
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The reviewed play on the 'drop' by Cotchery was a lucky bounce for the Broncos as there was not enough evidence to overturn, and the live call could have gone either way. The very next play was the strip 6 that changed the whole complection of the game. It was the single biggest play of the game IMO, and it was basically a lucky break that ceated it. The Broncos never even came close to the end zon the enitire game til that garbage TD in the 4th. It was great defense by CAR too.
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Newton has been fairly well poised all season and I'm not going to argue that he played his best last night...but 'm also not going to sum him up after that performance either. I don't believe the Panther's offense did any real adjusting to what Denver's line was doing. I think they got outcoached and out schemed.
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I'm not implying TB lost the Seattle game...just saying Newton's team smoked their opponents in the playoffs....including Seattle, and he is the leader of that team.
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Von Millers don't grow on trees and the Vikes have yet to impress me that they have one player who can impact a game like, Miller, Newton, Wilson, Michael Bennett Rogers ,Brady, Ray Lewis, either Manning brother...even an Edelman type, nor have they shown me yet, if they did have that guy, that they'd know how to make the most of that payers skillset to the betterment of the unit...ala AD. But Zimmer is making a case on defense IMO and maybe that guy will emerge. Hunter is definitely intriuging.
And I think that's what it comes down to on a game to game basis...which team continually gets the edge based on how well they do at putting their impact players in positions to have measurable impacts.
I don't think the Panther's completely failed there. But given what they needed later in the game, I think they failed to adapt...and maybe it was because they really hadn't needed to all season. Whereas the Broncos made it a theme.
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Anyway, I don't know about the merits of arguing poise between TB and Newton. Newton just played in the superbowl and was very close to winning it.
It was a good game....and i'd wager that Newton will be close to another shot well before another team has a pass rush like this years Broncos.
If the question is would I trade Newton for TB? No....but I don't think that's what you're saying either. You're saying that with a good enough team around him TB will be good enough to get it done. I agree there is potential there. But there's serious work to get done, as most every other playoff team has a comparable D and a better offense. Denver being an exception...and I don't see that line being something easily replicatable.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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@Kapp
Looking at your exchange with Jim, I see the common ground regarding Newton, when you compare his teams reliance on him vs the Vikes and AD. I agree and I don't really see that as Newton's issue.
The Broncos talent highlighted that shortcoming...much tha same way Seattle highlighted it for Vikings fans.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

Post by Mothman »

Here's something Teddy Bridgewater can learn from the Super Bowl: stick to playing QB, accurately predicting the outcome of the Super Bowl isn't his thing! ;)

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minn ... cos-020516
Minnesota Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater thinks the Carolina Panthers will win Super Bowl 50. However, if he were a betting man, he'd take the Denver Broncos to cover the 5.5-point spread.

Bridgewater's final score prediction: Panthers 28, Broncos 24.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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What I learned about SB 50 is that there's no reason we can't be there next year. Our defense will be right up there with Carolina's and Denver's and our offense will almost certainly be improved next year. Really not much else to say, super excited to see how the draft and Fa play out and next year I think we get our first championship.
Cliff wrote:It's also possible that Teddy being sacked 11 more times on about 50 less attempts factored into him looking skittish at times. Teddy was sacked on 9.8% of his pass attempts. Newton was sacked on about 6.6% of his pass attempts. Out of players with 300+ attempts only Marcus Mariota was sacked on average more than Bridgewater.

I did not realize Bridgewater has more yards per attempt than Newton. Bridgewater only has 4 less completions than Newton despite Newton throwing almost 50 more passes.
Yeah, biggest difference is the offensive lines, this was the first time all year a team was able to get that kind of pressure on Cam and he completely crumbled under it. Teddy's use to that though, in a way it might just help him develop faster against pressure and his poise is already top notch for a guy running for his life on 40% of snaps.

Yep, Teddy's YPA is actually about average, most people think he checks down too much and only throws short (usually when trying to negate his top tier accuracy stats) but it's just not true. If we can protect him like Cam he'll be a monster.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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One take away from this is Denver has an amazing front four. Reminded me of Doleman and Co. I see no reason that the Vikings cannot be that good with a upgrade here and there. The Bronco D made the latest phenom look average at best.
That is one reason that I would not mind picking with the first pick a defensive player even though the O-line is the most glaring need. Another top LB or DE would be great.
Another take away how the Vikings are not that far away even with TB. It proves that offense sells tickets and defenses win championships and you do not need big numbers from your QB to win it all.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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mondry wrote:Yep, Teddy's YPA is actually about average, most people think he checks down too much and only throws short (usually when trying to negate his top tier accuracy stats) but it's just not true. If we can protect him like Cam he'll be a monster.
It's obviously not true that he "only" throws short but it's quite obviously true that he checks down a lot and even his average YPA number is a product of the Vikings being one of the more effective teams in terms of yards gained after catch (they had the third highest average in the league last year). It doesn't matter how the yards are gained, of course, but Bridgewater throws a pretty high percentage of short passes and throws downfield less frequently than most NFL starters.

He has a long, long way to go before becoming a "monster".
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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A few more thoughts about this game:

There's a lot of focus on Denver's dominant defense and how that reaffirms the old adage that defense wins championships but the game also showed, quite clearly, how breakdowns in blocking, offensive execution and on special teams can cost a team a Super Bowl.

The Broncos defense allowed 10 points but the Panthers defense allowed just 17 and they gave up considerably fewer yards. One of Denver's TDs was scored by their defense on a fumble recovery. The other was scored after a sack/fumble set Denver's offense up at the 4. Offensive breakdowns by the Panthers (which can also be perceived as great defensive plays by the Broncos) played a huge role in both scores.

The Broncos also kicked a field goal after a 61 punt return set them up in FG position at the 14 and the Panthers defense held their ground to force a kick. That was one special teams breakdown. A missed 44 field goal attempt by the Panthers was another.

The Panthers delivered a pretty dominant defensive performance themselves and actually allowed over 100 yards less than the Broncos but the "defense wins championships" adage didn't work out for them, largely due to breakdowns elsewhere on the team.

Applying this to the Vikings, I think it reinforces the importance of getting better on offense and special teams by underlining that a dominant defensive performance won't necessarily win you a title if the other aspects of the team break down too often or can't make an effective counterpunch.
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Re: What the Vikings (and fans) can learn from SB 50

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The fact that Denver won the game easily while doing nothing on offense highlights the fact that big plays can be made on defense as well as offense. This game, as any Vikings fan should know by now, is not about yards. It's about points. Denver's defense, for all practical purposes, outscored Carolina's offense. Who cares if Carolina had more yards? Denver's defense made big plays when it needed to.

If defense doesn't win championships, Denver's defense certainly broke that mold.


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