Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

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Cliff
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Cliff »

Mothman wrote: :rofl:

Why are we just learning this now?
It never came up! :D
It's hard for me to imagine Zimmer getting much more out of those rosters but who knows? Ironically, his approach to get 11 wins in his second season wasn't that different from the approach Frazier took to get 10. They used different schemes but the "run the ball, avoid turnovers and play goo defense" strategy was basically the same.

My take is that Frazier was dealt a bad hand from the beginning and rather than being down on him for the two losing seasons, I'm impressed that he actually managed to get a 10 win season out of what he had.
The only reason I think so is Zimmer's track record of being able to get the most out of defensive personnel. He seems to be able to take more raw but athletically gifted players and get them playing at a high level. Maybe he could have shined up some of those scrubs. We'll never know, of course, I guess it's just a long way of saying I'm glad the team has Zimmer over Frazier even though I did like him and don't think he's a horrible coach.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

Cliff wrote:It never came up! :D
We could have been referring to him as "Happy" for years!
The only reason I think so is Zimmer's track record of being able to get the most out of defensive personnel. He seems to be able to take more raw but athletically gifted players and get them playing at a high level. Maybe he could have shined up some of those scrubs. We'll never know, of course, I guess it's just a long way of saying I'm glad the team has Zimmer over Frazier even though I did like him and don't think he's a horrible coach.
I understand.

I never felt like Frazier had the full commitment of the organization behind him and I think that hurt as well, especially in 2013. I mention it now because that thought has me wondering: were the basic parameters of Zimmer's contract ever revealed? I get the impression he does have the team's full commitment behind him but I don't recall ever reading a report on the length of his contract. I wonder how many years are left on his deal.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by The Breeze »

I'm not certain how good of a coach Fraizer is/was. I don't believe he had near the same style when it comes to holding guys accountable as Zimmer does. But I do believe, to echo Jim's organizational support comment, that Spielman wanted him outta here and that could have effected a lot of things.
I feel Zimmer is a better coach right now...but he has quite a bit more experience in the league too.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

S197 wrote: I can't go as far as to say "at no fault of his own." For example, Chris Cook. He was worked out personally by Frazier and as we all know, the guy had zero ball skills. I'm pretty sure Frazier had a big influence on that pick.
The flip side of that, of course, is that Frazier was also a likely influence on the Vikings decision to move up and draft Harrison Smith. They reportedly coveted him after being impressed by him when Frazier coached at the Senior Bowl.

Just sayin'... :)
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by 720pete »

Mothman wrote:The reason I have less trust in Spielman's ability when it comes to offense is because of his track record at certain positions there. He's done well with RBs and TEs, less so with linemen, QBs and WRs. Some of that is bad luck (Rice couldn't stay healthy) but some of it is his propensity to roll the dice. Harvin was immensely talented and briefly successful but risky. His personality was known to be problematic and sure enough, that blew up on the Vikes. We've already discussed Patterson and some of the free agent choices.

I'm not saying Spielman can't get the job done. I just have my doubts about his approach and judgment, especially when it comes to offense.
I'd like to see a list of picks he's made that are considered "gambles," and which ones have paid off. Patterson was a gamble that didn't pay off. The Gerhart pick was always a questionable selection too. Ponder? Childs? Harvin?

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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote: The flip side of that, of course, is that Frazier was also a likely influence on the Vikings decision to move up and draft Harrison Smith. They reportedly coveted him after being impressed by him when Frazier coached at the Senior Bowl.

Just sayin'... :)
That's certainly a fair point, if he's to share blame in the failures he deserves some credit in the successes. I recall putting together a list of secondary players under Frazier and the list was rather staggering in terms of volume and poor play. For every Harrison Smith there was a Tyrell Johnson, Madieu Williams, Chris Cook, Marcus McCauley, Asher Allen... Well you get the point. That's not all on him, but it's a lot of misses from a guy whose strength is supposed to be his secondary experience.

In any case, I'm glad Zimmer is here. Onward and upward (hopefully).
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

S197 wrote:That's certainly a fair point, if he's to share blame in the failures he deserves some credit in the successes. I recall putting together a list of secondary players under Frazier and the list was rather staggering in terms of volume and poor play. For every Harrison Smith there was a Tyrell Johnson, Madieu Williams, Chris Cook, Marcus McCauley, Asher Allen... Well you get the point. That's not all on him, but it's a lot of misses from a guy whose strength is supposed to be his secondary experience.
I remember. You and I had a long discussion about that.
In any case, I'm glad Zimmer is here. Onward and upward (hopefully).
Indeed. Fix that offense!

If they spend their first 3 draft picks on defense again this year, my head might explode.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote: Indeed. Fix that offense!

If they spend their first 3 draft picks on defense again this year, my head might explode.
Depends what they do in free agency. If they bring in 4 offensive linemen who are good enough to compete for a starting position, I'm ok with them going any direction they want with the first 3 picks :)
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

fiestavike wrote:Depends what they do in free agency.


Yes, and I almost wrote that as a qualifier because I knew somebody would bring it up. :)
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by mondry »

As long as they get the BPA I don't care if they go defense with every pick. Never force a need in the draft!
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

mondry wrote:As long as they get the BPA I don't care if they go defense with every pick. Never force a need in the draft!
I'm not worried about that. The Vikings draft to address needs every single year. Once the draft gets past the really obvious standout players in the early part of the first round, determining the "best player available" becomes highly subjective.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote:If they spend their first 3 draft picks on defense again this year, my head might explode.
:lol:

It will be interesting to see if Spielman takes a guard or center in the first 3 rounds. Just going off memory, I think he's only drafted tackles early. The last interior guy I can remember getting taken early was Ryan Cook (although he started at T then moved over to G) and that was under Foley. Maybe I'm forgetting someone.
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Re: Browns Journalist wants Browns to poach GM Rick Spielman

Post by Mothman »

S197 wrote: :lol:

It will be interesting to see if Spielman takes a guard or center in the first 3 rounds. Just going off memory, I think he's only drafted tackles early.
That's correct: Loadholt and Kalil.
The last interior guy I can remember getting taken early was Ryan Cook (although he started at T then moved over to G) and that was under Foley. Maybe I'm forgetting someone.
No, you're remembering correctly. Clemmings was the first interior lineman Spielman has drafted for the Vikings earlier than the 5th round.
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