How to Improve the Offense

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Mothman
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:And I also agree. Let's face it, quarterbacks do get injured in this full contact sport. Hopefully, Bridgewater will be fine but if he goes down, then the Vikings need more than just a warm body in there at quarterback. And as I stated before, it should be a QB that can actually push Teddy, which could help Bridgewater's game.
Exactly. I'd put it this way: they don't need to sign a QB to replace Bridgewater but they do need a young QB capable of replacing Bridgewater.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by S197 »

John Madden: Score more points

Bill Musgrave: Use more TE's

Brad Childress: Run more on 1st down

Leslie Frasier: Watch more tape

Mike Tice: Increase AD Ratio

Joe Buck: Clone Aaron Rodgers

Cleveland Browns: Fire everyone

Bill Belichick: Fly drones over Lambeau

Paul Allen: Change Teddy's cadence from "Hike" to "BOOM!"

Jerry Burns (to Zimmer): Swear more

Jimmy Johnson: Trade AD for 6 draft picks and 5 players

Brian Billick: Bring back Gerald Allen
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

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My take on the original question:

How to improve the offense? The big 3 (in no particular order):

— Significantly improve the quality of the offense line play
— Bridgewater needs to take a big step forward in his development
— The playcalling needs to become less predictable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the running game that can't be fixed by addressing that big 3. The passing game is where the Vikes need to take a major step forward and most of what needs to happen there has already been mentioned here.

For what it's worth, I think the Vikes have to find a way to get Patterson involved in the offense next year. He's just too talented to squander on the bench and it's clear they need more playmaking ability on the field. To that end, if they could find a nice, big, skilled receiver that can come up with contested catches in the end zone and downfield, that might make a big difference.

They've already taken a step toward improving their run and pass blocking: they're going to have a new OL coach next year. Hopefully, he'll be an upgrade. The next (and bigger) step is to assess the OL personnel they have and bring in more talent. The line may need as many 2-4 new starters over the next few years to seriously improve so investing several draft picks and some free agent money into that unit should not only be an option this offseason, it should be a goal.

Bridgewater has a lot of work to do. By his own admission, he needs to be more aggressive. Everything from his recognition and anticipation to his mechanics needs work. I think he'll put in the effort, Hopefully, he can translate that to the field. I was impressed with the composure he showed at the end of the playoff game, with a big win on the line.

Peterson also needs to work on the shortcomings in his game and the Vikes need to do all they can to help both he and Bridgewater improve and achieve their goals (they need to help everybody but those two players are key).

Anyway, improved blocking makes everything more achievable. Improved play from the QB position will lead to more productivity in the passing game, which, in turn, should help the running game. Less predictable playcalling should help across the board.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

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S197 wrote:John Madden: Score more points

Bill Musgrave: Use more TE's

Brad Childress: Run more on 1st down

Leslie Frasier: Watch more tape

Mike Tice: Increase AD Ratio

Joe Buck: Clone Aaron Rodgers

Cleveland Browns: Fire everyone

Bill Belichick: Fly drones over Lambeau

Paul Allen: Change Teddy's cadence from "Hike" to "BOOM!"

Jerry Burns (to Zimmer): Swear more

Jimmy Johnson: Trade AD for 6 draft picks and 5 players

Brian Billick: Bring back Gerald Allen
:rofl:
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by mosscarter »

all year everyone has been blaming the offensive line. in reality, in the second half of the season they weren't all that bad. they weren't great by any means, but averaged 2.8 sacks a game. what the real problem was all year was the fact that our passing yds per game was a putrid 183 yds (31st in the nfl) and our total offensive yds were 29th (321). my question is all of you people who blamed the offensive line this year; where will you be after next year once we improve the line even more and most likely have the same statistics passing? johnson, patterson, wallace (whose career bridgewater likely ruined financially) and even wright. you mean to tell me all of the 4 above mentioned wide receivers are on par with their statistics they had this year? because i don't think they are even close, and i feel the worst for wallace; like i said who will be lucky to get 4 mil a year thanks to brigewater's side arm weak cannon. live on teddy bridgewater. we were the only offensive line to start all 5 starters all year and yet they are to blame? wow. hopefully this offseason they work on teddy's three step drop and no look lob pass to the corner like he did with a wide open mckinnon in the gb game. he never even looked where he was throwing. he just aimlessly throws the ball. in two games against seattle he can't manage 1 passing td? how about in the final 3 games of the season including the playoffs, he managed only 1 passing td? that is sad and our number one problem and anyone who can't see it has to be nearly blind.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Mothman wrote:My take on the original question:

How to improve the offense? The big 3 (in no particular order):

— Significantly improve the quality of the offense line play
— Bridgewater needs to take a big step forward in his development
— The playcalling needs to become less predictable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the running game that can't be fixed by addressing that big 3. The passing game is where the Vikes need to take a major step forward and most of what needs to happen there has already been mentioned here.

For what it's worth, I think the Vikes have to find a way to get Patterson involved in the offense next year. He's just too talented to squander on the bench and it's clear they need more playmaking ability on the field. To that end, if they could find a nice, big, skilled receiver that can come up with contested catches in the end zone and downfield, that might make a big difference.

They've already taken a step toward improving their run and pass blocking: they're going to have a new OL coach next year. Hopefully, he'll be an upgrade. The next (and bigger) step is to assess the OL personnel they have and bring in more talent. The line may need as many 2-4 new starters over the next few years to seriously improve so investing several draft picks and some free agent money into that unit should not only be an option this offseason, it should be a goal.

Bridgewater has a lot of work to do. By his own admission, he needs to be more aggressive. Everything from his recognition and anticipation to his mechanics needs work. I think he'll put in the effort, Hopefully, he can translate that to the field. I was impressed with the composure he showed at the end of the playoff game, with a big win on the line.

Peterson also needs to work on the shortcomings in his game and the Vikes need to do all they can to help both he and Bridgewater improve and achieve their goals (they need to help everybody but those two players are key).

Anyway, improved blocking makes everything more achievable. Improved play from the QB position will lead to more productivity in the passing game, which, in turn, should help the running game. Less predictable playcalling should help across the board.
I agree with everything except your last point. This team will always be a run first offense with #28. First and foremost, the run blocking has to make holes for Peterson, especially on first down. 2nd and manageable will take pressure off of the passing game and give Norv much more to work with. The Vikings averaged 8 yards to go on 3rd down vs GB. It's hard not to be predictable when you're in predictable situations.
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Mothman
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

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808vikingsfan wrote: I agree with everything except your last point. This team will always be a run first offense with #28. First and foremost, the run blocking has to make holes for Peterson, especially on first down. 2nd and manageable will take pressure off of the passing game and give Norv much more to work with. The Vikings averaged 8 yards to go on 3rd down vs GB. It's hard not to be predictable when you're in predictable situations.
Thanks but I don't see the disagreement you referred to above. :confused: It sounds like we're on the same page.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by mansquatch »

Just some stats here:

I looked at AP's performance against SEA in the playoff game. He had 24 attempts, of which 5 were negative or zero yardage plays. That amounts to 20.83% of his touches being negative. Put another way, on any play he has a 1 in 5 chance of moving your backwards.

Now that is isolated and therefore a very small sample size. However, it does tell a bit when you start looking at superbowl chances since this was against arguably the best defense in the NFL. In the playoffs, defense matters and what you can do against said defense matters. Also, before jumping to conclusions, ask "as compared to what". I didn't analyze other RB on other teams, so for all I know, that 20% could be very good.

For me the biggest thing is the impact this has on the Vikings who do not have a strong passing attack. If we are in 2nd and 11 or worse 1 out of 5 times then our offense as a whole is likely to be less productive given we are not a shoe in to consistently overcome such a deficit. We could debate that the ineffectiveness of the passing attack contributes to the number as well since teams are less scared of TB than they are of AP, and there is probably some truth to that as well. However, I think that door swings both ways and there very much a "chicken or the egg" conundrum there.

My opinion is that OL improvement will go a long way to addressing the above issue in that it should provide more consistent blocking in the running game as well as more consistent pass protection. Norv states at one point during the season that Teddy's elusiveness prevented the Vikings from having 20+ more sacks over the course of the season. That really puts an exclamation point on how bad the OL was in 2015.

I know Kiper has us going WR in the 1st round right now. I still do not see that unless they grab OL help in FA. I think this year that might be more likely given that the rest of this roster is showing that it can win and win now. Next year might be a SB window season for us, barring major injury.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by Demi »

that is sad and our number one problem and anyone who can't see it has to be nearly blind.
The WRs are a bigger problem than Teddy. A lot easier to try and address as well. You feel bad for Wallace? The guy that didn't want to sign here initially? Didn't like the weather. Got traded from the Dolphins for a 5th round pick? He isn't that good. He can run fast. So can a lot of guys. How many guys do the Patriots or Seahawks put out there that can run fast? Or can "make plays" like Patterson? That's not how you run an NFL offense. You need guys who will fight for the ball (already a knock on Patterson). Who can run the routes they're asked to run. Read the defense and adjust. And when a catchable ball is thrown, catch it. Our focus seems to be 40 times.

To that end, if they could find a nice, big, skilled receiver that can come up with contested catches in the end zone and downfield, that might make a big difference.
Or a receiver who could come down with contested catches period. I wouldn't give even odds on any of the wide receivers on this team coming down with a contested ball against any member of any secondary.

Teddy isn't elite, and likely never will be. But it's a lot easier to upgrade the talent at receiver, and offensive line, then it is to find a QB who will put this team in a better position to win. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings. Look at what they went through the previous two times they tried. And a number of other teams that have thrown top 5 picks at the position.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by fiestavike »

Looking at the technique difference between the Packer's O Line and our O Line in pass protection, one thing that really jumps out is the way that GBs linemen are all coached to hold. I mean, across the board they hold right around the armpits of the D Lineman. They do keep their hands inside, which the old announcers used to say "that way it isn't called" and I guess thats still the case. Meanwhile, our guys are typically kind of punching away at the defensive player even in pass protection and only holding once they are beat and they are forced to take a guy down or hold on the outside.

I think this could be a case where improved technique could make a huge difference. I mean lets face it, talent wise GB has one of the worse offensive lines in the league, but when they are healthy they produce at a competent level. I think thats the result of technique. Our guys look like the keystone cops, but clearly have some actual talent and athletic ability.

I'm hopeful that Sparano is going to make a significant difference.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

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Jordysghost wrote:Who would you replace him with?
I didn't have an immediate replacement for him because I would have chosen a different QB in the same draft. As I would draft another one this draft. I believe if TB could make all the throws accurately and on time that the offense would be much better like it was in 2009. I believe that Norv has had to scale back because there is not confidence in getting the ball downfield. The Vikings are squandering time again. Tired of these projects that don't work out. Been there, done that. Over it. I don't care what people think of my opinion, it is mine and I own it.
I apologize if I do not dance around the topic with eloquence of others and sugar coat things, from what I have seen in two years the Vikings are wasting time with another project.
SO, when I meant replace TB, I meant not to rest on him, look to find better out there. Short but not so sweet, "next". In my opinion it would not take much to find a better option.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by fiestavike »

How would I improve the offense....hmmm.

LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Richie Incognito
C - Stefan Wisniewski
RG - Brandon Fusco
RT - Phil Loadholt

backups
Joe Berger
Mike Harris
Austin Shephard
TJ Clemmings
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by Demi »

The Vikings are squandering time again. Tired of these projects that don't work out. Been there, done that. Over it. I don't care what people think of my opinion, it is mine and I own it.
How many of those projects QBed the team an entire season, made the playoffs, and then played well enough to beat a better team at home? Not sure I'd lump Teddy in with the last couple bums we had. He needs work, but some better help would be easier to find, and more likely to pay off. Of course they should still sign and draft the position, and hopefully with more emphasis then they did with TJoke and Ponder. But unlike those two cases, I think we have a guy we can win with. And possibly more if the defense continues, and we get some better players around him on offense.
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote:How would I improve the offense....hmmm.

LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Richie Incognito
C - Stefan Wisniewski
RG - Brandon Fusco
RT - Phil Loadholt

backups
Joe Berger
Mike Harris
Austin Shephard
TJ Clemmings
Definitely would be starting Harris at RG over Fusco
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Re: How to Improve the Offense

Post by mosscarter »

i'm not upset about any of these overpaid millionaires who get paid to play a kid's game. with that said, this season majorly hurt wallace financially. i do not buy the idea that our receivers cannot get "separation." what exactly does that mean anyway, separation? the real truth is we have horrible quarterback and that has effected everything on our offense that ranked next to last in the entire NFL. and then the best part is people actually talk about trading or releasing peterson. peterson IS our entire offense. where in the world would we be without him? another year and another rushing title and people blame him that teddy sucks. teddy sucks because teddy sucks. if you can't develop some type of play action passing game with one of the best rb's ever in the backfield what does that say about you? peterson is going nowhere and he shouldn't be. he is a beast and can actually dominate his position. unless bridgewater hits the gym and gets butch harmon to change his mechanics we'll be in the same situation next year as we were this year. our defense is that good and will only get better.
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