Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

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J. Kapp 11
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Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Might as well address this right away.

Adrian Peterson is going to cost the team a LOT of money next year. We are getting close, but we have definite needs -- the O-line, safety, depth at linebacker and more. Jerick McKinnon has shown to be a very versatile back who runs very well out of the shotgun. Adrian isn't getting any younger -- he'll be 31 next year. He only gained 524 yards after the Oakland game. He's obviously prone to fumbles. He requires the QB to be under center. And he's not effective in the passing game.

On the other hand, AP has been the face of the franchise for 9 years. He's arguably the best RUNNER at running back in the NFL. He's a threat to score every time he touches the ball.

You're the GM. Do you bring him back? What tips the scales for you?
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LondonViking
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by LondonViking »

Its difficult, since I got into the sport AP has been the face of our franchise but I am swiftly coming around to the idea of life without him which I never thought I would say.

If it were me I would start to look viably at the serious prospect of moving on and forward without him. That money from his contract could help a lot with some of our glaring needs, and use a pick to try and get a workhorse to compliment Mckinnon with as a nice 1-2. I personally would like to us in the shotgun more often which well we know about that. I dont feel we will see the best from TB whilst AP is on the team.

Its a hard one and I am torn. But I feel they will want him around for the new stadium and all the promo jazz.

But what do I know I am just a fan across the world.

AD is a legend and this is a very circular argument for me.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by Mothman »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Might as well address this right away.

Adrian Peterson is going to cost the team a LOT of money next year. We are getting close, but we have definite needs -- the O-line, safety, depth at linebacker and more. Jerick McKinnon has shown to be a very versatile back who runs very well out of the shotgun. Adrian isn't getting any younger -- he'll be 31 next year. He only gained 524 yards after the Oakland game. He's obviously prone to fumbles. He requires the QB to be under center. And he's not effective in the passing game.

On the other hand, AP has been the face of the franchise for 9 years. He's arguably the best RUNNER at running back in the NFL. He's a threat to score every time he touches the ball.

You're the GM. Do you bring him back? What tips the scales for you?
I'd bring him back. What tips the scales for me is that believe he was a key factor in winning the division this year. His presence changes the game (in a positive sense) and I think he could be much more effective with improvement and adjustments elsewhere on the offense. I disagree that he's not effective in the passing game. He's certainly not an ideal fit in that regard but he was fifth on the team in receptions and receiving yards this season, behind Diggs, Rudolph, Wallace and Wright.

He needs to work on the fumble but he's shown in the past that's a problem he's capable of overcoming.

I'm expecting most fans to want him gone but again, I doubt we would have seen a division championship or a playoff appearance from the Vikes this season without him.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by losperros »

Peterson has to be still considered the best RB in the game, especially given the spotty run blocking by the OL. Fix the OL and one has to wonder what more AD could do, because he would do more than he presently does (which includes winning the rushing title - again).

I wouldn't assume that the Vikings badly want to play in shotgun sets all the time. Their offense displayed a conservative run first philosophy throughout the season. Now was that entirely because Peterson was expected to carry the team or was it also because the passing game was fairly abysmal most of the time? Without Peterson the team would not have made it to the playoffs.

Okay, so if I'm the GM I'm thinking about all this. But I also wonder what would be in Peterson's best interest as well? How many years does he have left and are the Vikings truly as close to a championship as some other teams are? Maybe both the Vikings and AD would be better off if Peterson could be dealt to a team that goes to the Super Bowl soon. I'd love to see AD get a chance to play in one before he retires. Or maybe a GM wouldn't even consider that, though it seems as if some do with outstanding veteran NFL players.

Bottom line, the Vikings and Peterson need to sit down and talk. What kind of team do the Vikings want to be and does it include a back with Peterson's style? If not, what kind of teams could AD play on during his final years? If things are worked out and everyone is on the same page, then I think it can be a win/win situation for both the team and AD.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by nightowl »

If it was my call, I would trade him. I think it's very clear the cost/benefit pendulum has swung the other way and it's time to get what we can. It's not even really about the ill-timed fumbles or the propensity to say dumb things or even the scandal. He just costs too much compared to what effect he's having, and to my eye his presence is a clear hindrance to the development of the passing game.

What I see is a RB who's really only effective when he can stand 7-8 yards back, get a full head of steam and crash into or through the line. He's always been a bit of a grinder where you just keep feeding him the ball and he'll eventually break one off, but the big ones are starting to become too far in between. This also requires the QB to under center, and it relies on a lot of 2 TE or 2 Back sets with a Fullback leading the way. To me this has become a big problem, because Teddy seems to be much more effective when they can spread things out, put him in the shotgun and let him make quick passes that allow for YAC. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team seemed to be moving the ball much more effectively when McKinnon was in there.

It's just time to move on.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by IrishViking »

nightowl wrote:If it was my call, I would trade him. I think it's very clear the cost/benefit pendulum has swung the other way and it's time to get what we can. It's not even really about the ill-timed fumbles or the propensity to say dumb things or even the scandal. He just costs too much compared to what effect he's having, and to my eye his presence is a clear hindrance to the development of the passing game.

What I see is a RB who's really only effective when he can stand 7-8 yards back, get a full head of steam and crash into or through the line. He's always been a bit of a grinder where you just keep feeding him the ball and he'll eventually break one off, but the big ones are starting to become too far in between. This also requires the QB to under center, and it relies on a lot of 2 TE or 2 Back sets with a Fullback leading the way. To me this has become a big problem, because Teddy seems to be much more effective when they can spread things out, put him in the shotgun and let him make quick passes that allow for YAC. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team seemed to be moving the ball much more effectively when McKinnon was in there.

It's just time to move on.

I completely agree.

If he was morphing into a back that complemented our passing game yes but like you alluded to, we are building our offense around an engine that is running out of gas. I have no doubt that he'll come out on fire for the first few games next year but I don't think he has the tank to go the full season full bore anymore. Jerrick is a great back, I think we could do better at power back than Asiata but I would be fine moving on from Peterson next year.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Mothman wrote: I'd bring him back. What tips the scales for me is that believe he was a key factor in winning the division this year. His presence changes the game (in a positive sense) and I think he could be much more effective with improvement and adjustments elsewhere on the offense. I disagree that he's not effective in the passing game. He's certainly not an ideal fit in that regard but he was fifth on the team in receptions and receiving yards this season, behind Diggs, Rudolph, Wallace and Wright.

He needs to work on the fumble but he's shown in the past that's a problem he's capable of overcoming.

I'm expecting most fans to want him gone but again, I doubt we would have seen a division championship or a playoff appearance from the Vikes this season without him.
Before I say anything, I'll point out that I'm legitimately not sure about what I'd do.

To counter your excellent points, let me say that while AP likely was a difference maker in some of our wins, he also was the weak link in some of our losses.

In the 6 games we lost, including the playoffs, AP averaged just 46.5 YPG, gaining 279 yards on 93 carries for a 3.0 YPC. In the passing game, he caught 16 for 86 yards. In those same games, Jerick McKinnon, playing a fraction of the snaps, caught 11 passes for 59 yards.

My point is this ... Adrian Peterson, when he's in the game, MUST be the focal point of the offense, meaning he's also the focal point of the defense. If they stop him, they win. No other team in the NFL depends as much on a running back as we do. It could be said that the rest of the offense needs to step up, and that's true. But with Adrian on the field, are they really in the best position to do that?

Just a bunch of questions for me without a lot of answers.

One of the reasons Bill Belichick is so successful is that he's not afraid to cut guys whose value has diminished because their production doesn't match their price ... even though they're still good players. He takes heat for it, but he's almost never wrong. For the long view going forward, is this the time to make that hard decision to pull the switch on AP?
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by w_huisman »

If I'm the GM, I do what Zimmer wants me to do.

In Zim I trust. He's earned it.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by mansquatch »

I'm on the fence, but leaning towards keep. AP does a lot of stuff that is simply fantastic. He also does stuff that is quite frustrating.

AP is a special, HOF, for the ages talent when he takes the ball from 8 yards deep. However, he isn't always magnificent. Sometimes he dances and loses yards, other times he gets 6 yards when anyone else would get 3. He can score on plays in the red zone that few others can. On the other hand, a player like McKinnon is far more versatile, can pass protect etc. You can line him up as a WR as well, which is tremendous.

IMO, the real issue is the red zone TDs. Who is going to be the main threat for this team to punch the ball in the red zone? I think if we give up AP losing the scoring is going to really hurt us in the near term and for me that outweighs the negatives, at least right now.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by IrishViking »

mansquatch wrote:I'm on the fence, but leaning towards keep. AP does a lot of stuff that is simply fantastic. He also does stuff that is quite frustrating.

AP is a special, HOF, for the ages talent when he takes the ball from 8 yards deep. However, he isn't always magnificent. Sometimes he dances and loses yards, other times he gets 6 yards when anyone else would get 3. He can score on plays in the red zone that few others can. On the other hand, a player like McKinnon is far more versatile, can pass protect etc. You can line him up as a WR as well, which is tremendous.

IMO, the real issue is the red zone TDs. Who is going to be the main threat for this team to punch the ball in the red zone? I think if we give up AP losing the scoring is going to really hurt us in the near term and for me that outweighs the negatives, at least right now.

But the problem is, is that he comes out on any third down longer than 3 yards now.

I guess to me this whole season has been waiting with baited breath to see if AP was going to defy time. I think it reasonable to say that he is still a good back but his age shows.

To me, keeping him or letting him go is a wash, and I think that alone speaks volumes.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by AlldayPotter »

Honestly I believe they should have the game plan centered around teddy and not adrian. Have him play second fiddle like he did with Favre back in 09.

Having AP as the main focus of this offense is hindering teddy's progression and our production and tempo from our WRs.

We need O line BAD and possibly a red zone/deep threat receiver. (Calvin Johnson anyone???....)
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by indianation65 »

What's the point of having the best NFL back if he continually breaks your heart?

Trade him, and keep Walsh. We'll learn a few games into next season if Walsh has forgiven himself, then talks of getting rid of Walsh may ensue if he hasn't.

...wisdom (?) who knows...
Last edited by indianation65 on Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by Mothman »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Before I say anything, I'll point out that I'm legitimately not sure about what I'd do.

To counter your excellent points, let me say that while AP likely was a difference maker in some of our wins, he also was the weak link in some of our losses.

In the 6 games we lost, including the playoffs, AP averaged just 46.5 YPG, gaining 279 yards on 93 carries for a 3.0 YPC. In the passing game, he caught 16 for 86 yards. In those same games, Jerick McKinnon, playing a fraction of the snaps, caught 11 passes for 59 yards.

My point is this ... Adrian Peterson, when he's in the game, MUST be the focal point of the offense, meaning he's also the focal point of the defense. If they stop him, they win. No other team in the NFL depends as much on a running back as we do. It could be said that the rest of the offense needs to step up, and that's true. But with Adrian on the field, are they really in the best position to do that?
I think they are and I think their inability to do so more effectively speaks to deeper issues on the team. For example, if the line could block more effectively for Peterson, I think he'd be more consistently productive. I've never seen a back have to break so many tackles behind the line of scrimmage just to gain yardage or avoid a loss.

Peterson's presence created a lot of single coverage this season and the Vikes didn't take much advantage of it. I believe if they improved on that, he'd suddenly look like a much greater asset
One of the reasons Bill Belichick is so successful is that he's not afraid to cut guys whose value has diminished because their production doesn't match their price ... even though they're still good players. He takes heat for it, but he's almost never wrong. For the long view going forward, is this the time to make that hard decision to pull the switch on AP?
It's a good question but I don't think the Vikes are at that point with Peterson. Personally, I felt his production did match his price. He led the league in rushing and was instrumental in a number of the team's wins. I don't see him as a factor that's held back the development of the passing game. If anything, they may have tried to hide their passing deficiencies by leaning on his ability. Even in games where his yards-per-carry total wasn't great, his ability to grind out yardage and "eat clock", giving the defense (clearly the strength of the team) a chance to rest, was important. He still seems like a tremendous asset to me.

I like McKinnon's game a lot but I think one of the reasons he looks so good is because he's a role-player. In the team's most lopsided losses this season, they turned away from Peterson and got clobbered. It happened against SF, against Green Bay, against Seattle... I think that speaks volumes about his continued importance to the team. He may be the focal point of the offense but without him, it doesn't seem to have much of an identity.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by fiestavike »

What can they get for him? If they can get a 1st somehow, its a no brainer. Realistically, I doubt they could get more than a 4th for him.

I would trade him anyway. The biggest issue to me is the lack of situational awareness. That means, he's not a "smart" football player.

The two things I most want to do are keep the young core of this team together and fix the offensive line. I'd use the AP/Wallace money to that effect.
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Re: Adrian Peterson -- The elephant in the room

Post by IrishViking »

fiestavike wrote:What can they get for him? If they can get a 1st somehow, its a no brainer. Realistically, I doubt they could get more than a 4th for him.

I would trade him anyway. The biggest issue to me is the lack of situational awareness. That means, he's not a "smart" football player.

The two things I most want to do are keep the young core of this team together and fix the offensive line. I'd use the AP/Wallace money to that effect.

I honestly think we would probably get a late 2nd for him at this point. That's with some Rick draft day magic.


I could see him being used as a topper in a flip though with some success. Trade him to like, the raiders or something as well as first round pick or the like.
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