Norv

[PurpleMustReign]

I would like to keep this a decent discussion rather than a bunch of "Norv sucks" or jabs at each other.

We have all expressed some frustration with Norv's offense since he came here, and rightfully so. I am very frustrated with the lack of use of Patterson at all. He can't run routes... SO WHAT... use him out of the bckfield or do a bubble screen to him, two plays that have been proven to work multiple times in the past. I see AD or Asiata line up as a WR more than PAtterson, and we all know they will never get the ball downfield.
Any game that AD doesn't have 25 carries should cost Norv a finger. He is the best RB inthe NFL and can break a long run any time... HAND HIM THE BALL. Heck, hand him the ball for the first 10 plays of the game for God's sake.

Teddy can make the throws when he has time... so put some extra TE's in to help block. Why should Kalil be expected to block Clay MAtthews 1 on 1 for an entire game? Matthews is one of the best pass rushers in the league, I am certain there are not many who can take him on.

Idk... the Vikings need some offensive production fast, or they will be watching football in January rather than playing in it.

[The Breeze]

My issue with Norv is somewhat similar to the issue many had with Fraizer.
I'm just not a believer in 'system' football anymore.
The more pay attention the more I see smart innovative coaches taking advatange of the trends created by 'system' minds.
The last play of last years superbowl is a perfect example.
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For a few seasons we were stuck with the mantra of how it was execution and personnel problems as to why this defense blew chunks on a weekly basis. Not the coaches.
2 seasons later under a new coach and the execution is consistent in a scheme that is way more dynamic.
My concern about Norv is that his scheme and results hinge on having players and execution that are not on the roster...while the players that are here could have success in a more flexible/innovative system.
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Norv is not my only concern here...but there are definitely some things not adding up with how he's doing buisness.

[Mothman]

My issue with Norv is somewhat similar to the issue many had with Fraizer.
I'm just not a believer in 'system' football anymore.
The more pay attention the more I see smart innovative coaches taking advatange of the trends created by 'system' minds.
The last play of last years superbowl is a perfect example.
-
For a few seasons we were stuck with the mantra of how it was execution and personnel problems as to why this defense blew chunks on a weekly basis. Not the coaches.
2 seasons later under a new coach and the execution is consistent in a scheme that is way more dynamic.

... and with a lot of new personnel specifically acquired to fit that system. Frazier's defense did have execution and personnel problems (not to mention serious injury issues in 2 of 3 years).

My concern about Norv is that his scheme and results hinge on having players and execution that are not on the roster...while the players that are here could have success in a more flexible/innovative system.
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Norv is not my only concern here...but there are definitely some things not adding up with how he's doing buisness.

... or how the Vikes are doing it. I think he could stand to be more flexible and innovative and I've been critical of him this season. However, I've seen him make some adaptations this year that tell me he can be flexible.

The Vikes have made a decision to focus on building the defense Zimmer wants and as I mentioned above, they've been acquiring the personnel to fit that system. On offense, I don't see that kind of vision, that sort of marriage of personnel and system in play. Perhaps they just need more time to get there since there are only so many moves they can make each year. The way they've been building on that side of the ball over the last several years doesn't make much sense to me. and I think it's a problem that's manifested in their offensive performance.

[losperros]

... or how the Vikes are doing it. I think he could stand to be more flexible and innovative and I've been critical of him this season. However, I've seen him make some adaptations this year that tell me he can be flexible.

The Vikes have made a decision to focus on building the defense Zimmer wants and as I mentioned above, they've been acquiring the personnel to fit that system. On offense, I don't see that kind of vision, that sort of marriage of personnel and system in play. Perhaps they just need more time to get there since there are only so many moves they can make each year. The way they've building on that side of the ball over the last several years doesn't make much sense to me. and I think it's problem that's manifested in their offensive performance.

You're right about Zimmer and the Vikings focusing on the defense. I even understand it to a point but I would understand it better if the offense wasn't so anemic. Why do the Vikings have half a team so often? Good defense, crippled offense. Great offense, no defense. We keep seeing variations of that.

Back to Norv, he has made some adaptations but not enough. I think he's still missing the boat with the passing game, which has been woefully lacking so far this season. I'm going to repeat what I've been saying, which is Turner's job is to make this offense work and provide a vision that puts points on the board. I know Bridgewater has fallen short on some things and I've been as critical as anyone about the OL's dreadful performance, but I still believe Norv could do smarter things with the passing game. And I believe some of the offense's limitations are directly a result of Turner's stubborn system.

[Mothman]

You're right about Zimmer and the Vikings focusing on the defense. I even understand it to a point but I would understand it better if the offense wasn't so anemic. Why do the Vikings have half a team so often? Good defense, crippled offense. Great offense, no defense. We keep seeing variations of that.

Back to Norv, he has made some adaptations but not enough. I think he's still missing the boat with the passing game, which has been woefully lacking so far this season. I'm going to repeat what I've been saying, which is Turner's job is to make this offense work and provide a vision that puts points on the board. I know Bridgewater has fallen short on some things and I've been as critical as anyone about the OL's dreadful performance, but I still believe Norv could do smarter things with the passing game. And I believe some of the offense's limitations are directly a result of Turner's stubborn system.

You'll get no argument from me on that point.

[The Breeze]

@Jim
I think the execution/personnel problems with Leslie's system were more a function of an outdated system than just failure in the personnel dept.
Norv is running the same stuff he ran in Dallas while Fraizer was running, or trying to run, a variation of the old Bears defense....without a MLB or Safety.
I feel Norvs adaptations this season are more of a dumbing down than any significant innovation which hinders the offense even more. Has there been a screen pass to AD yet?
Opinions are going to vary....but Norv was the one who saw whatever in TB....meanwhile Carr looks like the type of QB who better fits his system.
They are drafting WRs left and right as well as in FA.
I guess i'm not convinced the O-line is the root problem here...which is a change of opinion on my part.
Until they get that fixed, which could take a couple of years...we might be looking at losing Wallace and CP just to keep Norv and his 'system' which, quite frankly, hasn't done much outside the regular season in a long long time...a bit like Leslie's copied system.

[slapnut19]

after 10 games it's clear to me that having peterson is what's holding this offense back. don't get me wrong, when he's rolling and the defense is doing their things it's a thing of beauty, but teddy obviously doesn't excel under center, especially with an average o line. adrian can't run effectively from the shotgun sets, which just so happen are the ones that teddy throws best from. i think for this season they are going to ride adrian and the defense as far as they can go, but heading into next year they have to make some serious changes if they want to create a serious passing attack with teddy.

[Jordysghost]

after 10 games it's clear to me that having peterson is what's holding this offense back. don't get me wrong, when he's rolling and the defense is doing their things it's a thing of beauty, but teddy obviously doesn't excel under center, especially with an average o line. adrian can't run effectively from the shotgun sets, which just so happen are the ones that teddy throws best from. i think for this season they are going to ride adrian and the defense as far as they can go, but heading into next year they have to make some serious changes if they want to create a serious passing attack with teddy.

Having the best RB in the game is clearly not holding you back. You really think the O would be better without AD?

[slapnut19]

Having the best RB in the game is clearly not holding you back. You really think the O would be better without AD?

let me rephrase. having peterson is holding teddy back. he's not a good drop back/play action qb like turner needs for this offense. teddy was more efficient last year in the spread/shotgun, which is not a set that peterson can run well from

[VikingPaul73]

Ponder sucks!!!!

[Jordysghost]

let me rephrase. having peterson is holding teddy back. he's not a good drop back/play action qb like turner needs for this offense. teddy was more efficient last year in the spread/shotgun, which is not a set that peterson can run well from

Thanks. I appreciate the clarification.

[PurpleMustReign]

Ponder sucks!!!!

Lol.

[Purple bruise]

Lol.

Brilliant

[DK Sweets]

It's hard to say.

We all thought Bevell sucked, and then he did great in Seattle. We all thought Musgrave sucked, but he got more production out of Peterson, Harvin, and Patterson than anyone else has and has started off nicely in Oakland.

I will always believe Patterson can be better than the opportunities he's being given right now, and it makes it more frustrating to see how much his teammates seem to love him...but I'm not there behind closed doors. I don't know why he's not getting opportunities, and I'm okay with saying I don't know.

Mostly, I think our line is trash and Teddy is growing through a sophomore slump. It's hard to judge a coordinator when the two biggest backbones of a modern offense are struggling.

If held at gun point, I would have to say that in my heart I think Norv is underperforming along with the rest of the unit right now, but I also don't think it's time to show him the door just yet, either.

[mosscarter]

teddy is holding teddy back period. qb's (past and present) dream of playing with a back like peterson. let's just call it what it is; teddy showed some promise last year as a rookie, but has totally bombed his second year. i cannot believe this teams record is 7-3 with his level of play; it has been pathetic. teddy's numbers are among the worst of any starting qb and yet he has one of the best rb's in history behind him and a great defense. this is by far and away the worst 7-3 viking team i have ever seen, and unless there is a total 360 with teddy, we finish 9-7 at best.