Thoughts Week 10

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S197
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote:To me, the parallels are very clear and eerily familiar. I don't think Ponder was flushed from the pocket that often without being pressured either. Like Bridgewater, he often faced too much pressure. It made it hard to accurately evaluate his game and it led to the development of some bad habits. He didn't step up into the pocket as often as you'd like but Teddy is developing a similar habit of rolling away from pressure instead of stepping up and likely for the same reason: when the pocket keeps collapsing in front of a QB, eventually he starts losing confidence that he can step up and he uses his feet.

Ponder looked off defenders at times and stared down receivers at times. He was inconsistent about it and I see that inconsistency in Bridgewater too, although not to the same degree.

Both QBs had/have a tendency to settle too easily for the check down. Again, some of that might be a product of pressure.

I think they have much more in common than most people want to admit. There are certainly similarities between between their second seasons that are difficult to ignore.
I think there are similarities. For instance, both are rather good at extending drives with their feet. And as you mention, both I think check down a little too quickly. Where I see differences is mainly in poise. Bridgewater tends to stand tall in the pocket and is quite good in crunch time. His numbers also reflect that he's rather good when pressured. Ponder was always rather skittish and while he did have some comebacks, I don't feel he's as good when the game is on the line (although I'm going purely by memory).

The thing that irked me the most about Ponder is a lot of his interceptions were on the same play. The guy could flat out not throw an out route and constantly got that route jumped by defenders. Even this year, Waynes jumped an out route he threw. He just continually struggled with that throw.

For Bridgewater, it's clearly the long ball that is his Achilles heel. He's flat out missed some wide open receivers (usually Wallace). Even the Diggs TD, while it was a spectacular catch, it really didn't need to be if the ball was placed better.

Basically, I do see similarities in that they're both young and inexperienced (if looking at the same timeframe in development). TB seems to have more of the intangibles that are difficult to teach, which is why I'm more optimistic on him than Ponder. Both have mechanics issues, TB's hopefully can be corrected.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by mosscarter »

if you really remember ponder didn't have happy feet at first; he developed that from poor protection and other insecurities as a qb. teddy is on the same path wake up. we thought he was different, but he isn't. he is the spitting image or rg3, wilson, and kaepernick. teddy looks pathetic this season.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by akvikingsfan »

mosscarter wrote:if you really remember ponder didn't have happy feet at first; he developed that from poor protection and other insecurities as a qb. teddy is on the same path wake up. we thought he was different, but he isn't. he is the spitting image or rg3, wilson, and kaepernick. teddy looks pathetic this season.
I'll take that. Two of those 3 quarterbacks have gotten their team to the super bowl.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

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Re: Thoughts Week 10

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mosscarter wrote:if you really remember ponder didn't have happy feet at first; he developed that from poor protection and other insecurities as a qb. teddy is on the same path wake up. we thought he was different, but he isn't. he is the spitting image or rg3, wilson, and kaepernick. teddy looks pathetic this season.
I acknowledged as much (about Ponder) in my conversation with Mothman. As far as Teddy "being on the same path" as Ponder, that may be true. It's also possible he's "on the same path" as Aaron Rodgers. I'm not ready to "give up" on the kid with only one full season under his belt, especially given the fact that Bridgewater's offensive line is not helping him. I said (to Mothman) and I'll say it to you: The question is - Will Teddy 'overcome' the poor play habits (caused in some part by poor OL play) when the OL improves. Impossible to tell at this point for Teddy. Ponder we already know couldn't do it. So...give Teddy a chance, and have a plan "B" in case he truly is going to repeat Christian Ponder.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

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Just Me wrote: I acknowledged as much (about Ponder) in my conversation with Mothman. As far as Teddy "being on the same path" as Ponder, that may be true. It's also possible he's "on the same path" as Aaron Rodgers. I'm not ready to "give up" on the kid with only one full season under his belt, especially given the fact that Bridgewater's offensive line is not helping him. I said (to Mothman) and I'll say it to you: The question is - Will Teddy 'overcome' the poor play habits (caused in some part by poor OL play) when the OL improves. Impossible to tell at this point for Teddy. Ponder we already know couldn't do it. So...give Teddy a chance, and have a plan "B" in case he truly is going to repeat Christian Ponder.
... or if he doesn't work out for some other reason. Just have a plan B!

I think it makes sense for people to acknowledge the shortcomings in Bridgewater's game right now ("warning signs" if we want to be alarmist about it) but they definitely shouldn't give up on him yet. Developing a QB is a process.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

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akvikingsfan wrote: I'll take that. Two of those 3 quarterbacks have gotten their team to the super bowl.
What in his game reminds you of Kaepernick or RG3? Even Wilson is a stretch. Kind of weird comparisons.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by chicagopurple »

we are arguing over some fine points here. The main issue for me is that after last years experience, followed by this years improved resources (better Wrs, getting AP back, having a KICK #### Defense behind him), Teddy just hasnt shown ANY improvement in his game. I understand his OL sucks.....it sucked last year too. I am certainly one of the very vocal voices who has never drank the koolAid on any of our OL components for the last few years. I dont expect Teddy to be the leagues leading passer in this situation. But I DO expect to see slow gradual improvement in his overall play and its just not there, at all.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by dead_poet »

Five Vikings stats that stand out, such as Peterson's damage after contact
3.59 — seconds, on average, Teddy Bridgewater held the ball Sunday

If it felt like the Vikings quarterback was holding onto the ball against the Raiders for the football equivalent of an eternity, well, it’s because he was. According to ESPN Stats and Info, Bridgewater held the ball for an average of 3.59 seconds. That was the highest total in the league this season by more than one-third of a second and one of the highest totals in recent years. So why was he holding the ball for so long? I don’t have a stat for that. But my eyes told me Sunday that his receivers were often blanketed downfield.
http://www.startribune.com/five-vikings ... 351758151/
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by Mothman »

S197 wrote: I think there are similarities. For instance, both are rather good at extending drives with their feet. And as you mention, both I think check down a little too quickly. Where I see differences is mainly in poise. Bridgewater tends to stand tall in the pocket and is quite good in crunch time. His numbers also reflect that he's rather good when pressured. Ponder was always rather skittish and while he did have some comebacks, I don't feel he's as good when the game is on the line (although I'm going purely by memory).

The thing that irked me the most about Ponder is a lot of his interceptions were on the same play. The guy could flat out not throw an out route and constantly got that route jumped by defenders. Even this year, Waynes jumped an out route he threw. He just continually struggled with that throw.

For Bridgewater, it's clearly the long ball that is his Achilles heel. He's flat out missed some wide open receivers (usually Wallace). Even the Diggs TD, while it was a spectacular catch, it really didn't need to be if the ball was placed better.

Basically, I do see similarities in that they're both young and inexperienced (if looking at the same timeframe in development). TB seems to have more of the intangibles that are difficult to teach, which is why I'm more optimistic on him than Ponder. Both have mechanics issues, TB's hopefully can be corrected.
I hope so. Thanks for the good, balanced post!
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by Mothman »

dead_poet wrote:Five Vikings stats that stand out, such as Peterson's damage after contact
http://www.startribune.com/five-vikings ... 351758151/

Good stuff. Peterson's yards after contact, year after year, are impressive. Defenders must dread having to tackle that guy.

I enjoyed reading the stats about Newman, who I think has been really good for the Vikes this year. He might actually be their best corner. He certainly plays with the savvy of an experienced veteran.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by losperros »

dead_poet wrote:Five Vikings stats that stand out, such as Peterson's damage after contact
http://www.startribune.com/five-vikings ... 351758151/
Looking at the coaches film on NFL Game Pass, I've noticed a lot of long-developing pass routes by the WRs. I don't understand that particular philosophy. Not on this team, anyway. Yeah, Carter and Moss could do that at one time but this current OL simply cannot pass block that well, let alone sustain blocks.

I'm just guessing here but another thing could be Bridgewater's desire to always make a play, regardless the situation, while trying extra hard to not make mistakes. According to Denny Green, both Daunte Culpepper and Rich Gannon suffered from the same drawbacks for a while in their careers. It caused them to hang onto the ball for too long during plays. Green said both QBs were coached out of the bad habit. I'm hoping the same happens for Bridgewater.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

Post by John_Viveiros »

S197 wrote:For Bridgewater, it's clearly the long ball that is his Achilles heel. He's flat out missed some wide open receivers (usually Wallace).
The (mis)connection with Wallace is what I've noticed also. It's why I am still not sure whether one or the other (or the combination of the two being on different pages) has been the issue. I don't think the Vikes will keep Wallace at this rate of production (regardless of who is determined to be at fault, if anyone is) at next year's salary, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, since his production really hasn't been there vs. a replacement level player, and it will open up some cap space for us.
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Re: Thoughts Week 10

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