NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bust

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NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bust

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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by dead_poet »

That was an interesting video, especially the commentary that "Teddy throws a very nice deep ball." Wasn't the opposite the narrative a few months ago?
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

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dead_poet wrote: That was an interesting video, especially the commentary that "Teddy throws a very nice deep ball." Wasn't the opposite the narrative a few months ago?
Yes, but I thought the opposite was true during the first half or so of last season. To his credit, Bridgewater flipped the narrative by showing real improvement in that department.

He seems to learn and adapt pretty quickly, which makes me wonder just how good he'll be this year. I know there are some lofty expectations for him out there. Maybe he can meet them.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by allday1991 »

It will be interesting to see who turns out to be our most productive receiver and Teddys go to target Between Wallace and Johnson. I am hoping Wallace has a big year with us however would bet on Johnson having the better year of the two.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by PurpleMustReign »

I can't find the other thread about TB that was up a while back, so I willuse this one.

I am very concerned with his play this year, because I have not seen much improvement at all from him. In fact, two of the three days this season have been very bad, IMO (At SF, SD).
What is his main issue? I don't see a lot of zip on his passes much of the time, and I think he is getting happy feet. He had time against SD and had some terrible throws, and I include the drop by Rudolph because that pass had no business being thrown, IMO.

I'm not declaring him the next Ponder, but he seems to be closer to Ponder than to Aaron Rodgers at this point.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

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PurpleMustReign wrote:I can't find the other thread about TB that was up a while back, so I willuse this one.

I am very concerned with his play this year, because I have not seen much improvement at all from him. In fact, two of the three days this season have been very bad, IMO (At SF, SD).
What is his main issue? I don't see a lot of zip on his passes much of the time, and I think he is getting happy feet. He had time against SD and had some terrible throws, and I include the drop by Rudolph because that pass had no business being thrown, IMO.

I'm not declaring him the next Ponder, but he seems to be closer to Ponder than to Aaron Rodgers at this point.
Since he's 3 games into his second season he probably should be closer to Ponder than Rodgers at this point. :)

I think his main issue is his mechanics. They're inconsistent and when they're off, it leads to high throws, inaccurate throws and problems. When they're on, he looks pretty sharp.

Another issue is youth: in terms of decision-making, young QBs often make the kind of mistakes he's been making. He made them last year and he'll either grow out of them or he won't but either way, it takes time. Overall, he handles himself pretty well considering his age and experience level.

He's always been more of a touch passer than a "zip" passer. That, and his mechanics, were among the reasons he dropped to the bottom of the first round where the Vikes drafted him.

Another issue is that teams have plenty of film on him now so they're going to put him in positions where he's shown he's uncomfortable. he'll have to learn to deal with it. As I see it, it's all part of the developmental process.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

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Mothman wrote: Since he's 3 games into his second season he probably should be closer to Ponder than Rodgers at this point. :)

I think his main issue is his mechanics. They're inconsistent and when they're off, it leads to high throws, inaccurate throws and problems. When they're on, he looks pretty sharp.

Another issue is youth: in terms of decision-making, young QBs often make the kind of mistakes he's been making. He made them last year and he'll either grow out of them or he won't but either way, it takes time. Overall, he handles himself pretty well considering his age and experience level.

He's always been more of a touch passer than a "zip" passer. That, and his mechanics, were among the reasons he dropped to the bottom of the first round where the Vikes drafted him.

Another issue is that teams have plenty of film on him now so they're going to put him in positions where he's shown he's uncomfortable. he'll have to learn to deal with it. As I see it, it's all part of the developmental process.
Agreed, but the preseason shine has almost worn completely off. Shaky-to-bad pass protection makes showing any kind of progress an uphill battle.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by jackal »

Honestly the media and fantasy guys want teddy to be 300 yards a game ...not needed IMO

200 yards a game with effective 3rd down passer rating and a touchdown or two
(with peterson)(and our Defense playing great and we have a playoff calibur team)

I just wan't Teddy, to be a little more consistent.. Rudolf, Ellison, Wallace and Pruitt have
all missed balls this season. They need to catch it when Bridgewater gets it there.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by dead_poet »

It's getting incredibly frustrating watching all of these other quarterbacks have time to set their feet and throw with balance while Teddy might get three or four of those opportunities each game. And it's definitely affecting his footwork as he's continually throwing off his back foot. This is leading to inaccurate passes and questionable (for him) offensive command. I'm really getting worried about Teddy. I need to see an efficient performance soon as I'm starting to creep towards the window to get out on the ledge.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

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jackal wrote:Honestly the media and fantasy guys want teddy to be 300 yards a game ...not needed IMO

200 yards a game with effective 3rd down passer rating and a touchdown or two
(with peterson)(and our Defense playing great and we have a playoff calibur team)

I just wan't Teddy, to be a little more consistent.. Rudolf, Ellison, Wallace and Pruitt have
all missed balls this season. They need to catch it when Bridgewater gets it there.

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. We are two dropped balls away from Teddy having 3 tds, 2 interceptions, and 80ish yards more on the season than he does now. Anyone who looks at THAT stat line would just shrug and say "Not great but I cant wait for him to go off in a game".

I get the admirably simple concept that "a miss is a miss" and it doesn't matter how it happened or what caused it. Just the final outcome matters. But I respectfully disagree. I think it is very, very easy (see easy, not bad) to pick those two plays and point out how the receiver or a non penalty call DIRECTLY caused the outcome. There are things outside of the control of Teddy and I just cant come to terms with the Idea of "That's the bottom line because stat analyst said so".

At some point luck does play an actual factor! Sometimes I just shake my head when announcers and fans seem so flabbergasted that something didn't happen or something did that "should/shouldn't" have "Statistically or Historically speaking" Its LUCK. Crap happens and luck and the play of others HAS to be accounted for. It just makes me scratch my head when announcers will bend over backwards for Adrian a la "Bad line, not enough touches, poor game plan, poor play choice, cant do anything without push" But for the QB it is always "needs to produce, no excuse, buck stops here". And yes that is a bit of hyperbole, most people will admit that the Oline is integral to the QB play but there is usually this unspoken "But" that hangs in the air with it.

"Well the oline isn't giving Teddy any time... but"
"Teddy doesn't have a pocket to step up into... but"

The implication being that what he is dealing with isn't ideal but its his job to overcome. Its just not true. Its a myth that has grown with the role of the quarterback. Once that ball leaves his hand he has absolutely no control over what happens. It is not Teddy's job to overcome his teams short comings. Its his job to play a single position on his team and do what his coach tell him to do. Yes there are great, great players out there: Aaron Rodgers who elevates what I will maintain would be a fairly average to poor team without him to perennial contender status. Peyton Manning, Brett Farve. These QBs CAN win superbowls without much thought to the pieces. However, the vast majority of teams do it by having a very good team around them. The stats that matter are completion percentages, conversion rates, and turnovers. Teddy has a decent arm, He has good awareness and ball security and he is confident. The numbers will come. "But this sky is falling stuff because he isnt hitting at least one bomb a game for a TD and 1-2 other mid to short ones is just weird. We are winning and we are not LOSING because of him. He isn't killing drives, yes he absolutely makes mistakes, but he also throws beautiful down converting out routes. Just give him time.


//end rant.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

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IrishViking wrote:Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. We are two dropped balls away from Teddy having 3 tds, 2 interceptions, and 80ish yards more on the season than he does now. Anyone who looks at THAT stat line would just shrug and say "Not great but I cant wait for him to go off in a game".
It's just a stat line. It wouldn't alter the way he's actually played and I understand that's part of the point you're making (his numbers would look better and he might be perceived differently if those passes had been completed) but I don't think his stats are what concerns everyone who has expressed concern. They weren't among the concerns Josh expressed above when he revived this thread.
At some point luck does play an actual factor! Sometimes I just shake my head when announcers and fans seem so flabbergasted that something didn't happen or something did that "should/shouldn't" have "Statistically or Historically speaking" Its LUCK. Crap happens and luck and the play of others HAS to be accounted for. It just makes me scratch my head when announcers will bend over backwards for Adrian a la "Bad line, not enough touches, poor game plan, poor play choice, cant do anything without push" But for the QB it is always "needs to produce, no excuse, buck stops here". And yes that is a bit of hyperbole, most people will admit that the Oline is integral to the QB play but there is usually this unspoken "But" that hangs in the air with it.

"Well the oline isn't giving Teddy any time... but"
"Teddy doesn't have a pocket to step up into... but"

The implication being that what he is dealing with isn't ideal but its his job to overcome. Its just not true. Its a myth that has grown with the role of the quarterback.
Well said and I wholeheartedly agree with you about that mythology.There is a "buck stops here" mentality with QBs. It's a position that tends to get more than it's fair share of praise and more than it's fair share of blame as well.
Once that ball leaves his hand he has absolutely no control over what happens. It is not Teddy's job to overcome his teams short comings. Its his job to play a single position on his team and do what his coach tell him to do. Yes there are great, great players out there: Aaron Rodgers who elevates what I will maintain would be a fairly average to poor team without him to perennial contender status. Peyton Manning, Brett Farve. These QBs CAN win superbowls without much thought to the pieces. However, the vast majority of teams do it by having a very good team around them. The stats that matter are completion percentages, conversion rates, and turnovers.
I think completion percentages are greatly overrated too (Bridgewater's a good example of that). I'd substitute point production for completion percentage because it's far, far more important. It's not easily quantifiable because it's not the QB's sole responsibility and if we just look at TD passes, drives where the QB may have been integral to getting the team into scoring position can be overlooked. He may have thrown them down to the 2 yard line but then handed the ball off to an RB who finished the drive, the team might have settled for a FG because penalties stalled the drive, etc.
Teddy has a decent arm, He has good awareness and ball security and he is confident. The numbers will come. "But this sky is falling stuff because he isnt hitting at least one bomb a game for a TD and 1-2 other mid to short ones is just weird. We are winning and we are not LOSING because of him. He isn't killing drives, yes he absolutely makes mistakes, but he also throws beautiful down converting out routes. Just give him time.
I think he needs time too but I don't think anyone is saying the sky is falling, just expressing concern over some issues with his game. You mentioned several of Bridgewater's positive attributes but there's no reason for anybody to put their head in the sand and ignore his negative attributes. The positives show where he could go and the negatives show why he might only go so far. They're both present and we just have to wait and see how he develops.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by mondry »

I know this will probably sound weird but I honestly think it's harder to play QB with a RB like Peterson and I think it's almost like learning a whole new offense because Peterson changes the dynamic that much. He runs better when the QB's under center, he runs better with or without a full back, he runs better with blah blah blah happening. Suddenly you're not just optimizing things for Teddy to be successful, you're altering everything to get Peterson to go off and because of that, some level of predictability and patterns start to emerge.

Last year, it's easy for Teddy to get into a rhythm and the game plan is focused around him throwing the ball. Yes he has a complimentary running game with Mckinnion and Asiata (until mckinnin gets hurt of course) but it was his job to win us football games. With Peterson, you're so obligated to not only get him involved but FEED him. I'm not saying that's a bad tactic, by all accounts we're 2-0 feeding peterson and 0-1 when they felt obligated to "establish teddy" but I do think it's something that might take a bit of getting use to for Teddy.

All I know is that we've seen this kind of dynamic every single year whether it's Ponder, Webb, Cassel, and now bridgewater where it's suppose to be so easy to pass on 8 in the box blah blah blah and yet it's difficult. I still think it has to do with the dynamics of stopping the run in the NFL, you get 8 guys in the box and suddenly you don't know which ones are run blitzing, you don't know which ones are falling into coverage, and often that run blitz just turns into a pass blitz on a passing play making it harder to pass block as well. Maybe most importantly, I think it makes it harder to READ THE DEFENSE.

The other constant in all that time is that the Offensive line has never been as good as it probably needs to be and having to feed Peterson kind of emphasizes the problem of having a bad line.

Favre's the only one who was able to pull off what everyone envisions passing with a back like adrian peterson should be, I thought Teddy would be the next but he looks a lot different from last year, hopefully he just needs more experience and time with it, Favre was like what a 20 year veteran at that point and a hall of famer. Let's give Teddy some time.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by mansquatch »

We talked about this a bit during 2012 when people were (rightly) freaking out about Ponder. In 2012 the general view was that if #28 is going to go beast mode and just demolish a defense, plus give us 2 TDs, then we should let him! In 2015, I think the same is true. If AP is going to unleash the beast, then by all means feed him the ball. I suspect that even the most pass happy coach would relish the comfort of having a back who can reliably deliver that much of the offensive load so the QB doesn't HAVE to make as many plays. In years past it was more that AP couldn't get going because TJack, Ponder, someone get me a whiskey NOW, couldn't complete a pass to save their life so teams stacked 9 in the box and basically dared the QB to try and beat them.

I do not think we are seeing that kind of formation yet as Teddy is making throws when he has to.

The concern I have was really apparently while watching the Detroit game. That game really should been 41-10 or some obnoxious blow out, but the Vikings offense left a lot of plays on the field. Against San Diego this was also true, although not as bad. Next week in Denver they will need some of those plays to win. IMO, consistency and being able to take advantage of opportunities are where they need to improve.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by VikingLord »

Bridgewater just needs to play better. He has the receiving weapons that can get the big plays down the field. He has the guys who can get open. He needs to settle down, trust his offensive line, make the small adjustments necessary in the pocket, and deliver the ball. Easier said than done, but if AD is going to keep going off like he has the last 2 weeks, Bridgewater has to starting finding and hitting a few more big plays down the field.
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Re: NFL.com: Vikings season preview: Teddy Bridgewater or bu

Post by Mothman »

mondry wrote:I know this will probably sound weird but I honestly think it's harder to play QB with a RB like Peterson and I think it's almost like learning a whole new offense because Peterson changes the dynamic that much. He runs better when the QB's under center, he runs better with or without a full back, he runs better with blah blah blah happening. Suddenly you're not just optimizing things for Teddy to be successful, you're altering everything to get Peterson to go off and because of that, some level of predictability and patterns start to emerge.


I don't necessarily think it's harder, it just requires a QB with a drop back passer's skills. He needs to be able to play under center as well as from the shotgun.
Last year, it's easy for Teddy to get into a rhythm and the game plan is focused around him throwing the ball. Yes he has a complimentary running game with Mckinnion and Asiata (until mckinnin gets hurt of course) but it was his job to win us football games. With Peterson, you're so obligated to not only get him involved but FEED him. I'm not saying that's a bad tactic, by all accounts we're 2-0 feeding peterson and 0-1 when they felt obligated to "establish teddy" but I do think it's something that might take a bit of getting use to for Teddy.

All I know is that we've seen this kind of dynamic every single year whether it's Ponder, Webb, Cassel, and now bridgewater where it's suppose to be so easy to pass on 8 in the box blah blah blah and yet it's difficult. I still think it has to do with the dynamics of stopping the run in the NFL, you get 8 guys in the box and suddenly you don't know which ones are run blitzing, you don't know which ones are falling into coverage, and often that run blitz just turns into a pass blitz on a passing play making it harder to pass block as well. Maybe most importantly, I think it makes it harder to READ THE DEFENSE.
It should make it easier to identify coverages.

We see the dynamic you mentioned because the vast majority of quarterbacks the Vikings have had since 2007 have either been inexperienced, average or just plain bad and because the Vikes have fielded a lot of mediocre-to-bad o-lines and receivers. Even when a defense puts 8 men in the box, the receivers still have to get open, the QB still has to make a good read and a good throw, the o-line still has to protect and the Vikes haven't been able to excel in those areas. I think that has FAR more to do with personnel issues than with Adrian Peterson.
The other constant in all that time is that the Offensive line has never been as good as it probably needs to be and having to feed Peterson kind of emphasizes the problem of having a bad line.
I don't understand how it emphasizes the problem. If anything, it seems to help mask the problem. Peterson's ability to gain yards after contact turns a lot of short or no gain plays into positives. The ability to run the ball takes pressure off the QB and allows the o-line to be aggressive. Without that ability, the o-line has to pass protect on the majority of offensive plays, the defense can tee off against a one-dimensional attack and the entire situation just tends to get worse.
Favre's the only one who was able to pull off what everyone envisions passing with a back like adrian peterson should be, I thought Teddy would be the next but he looks a lot different from last year, hopefully he just needs more experience and time with it, Favre was like what a 20 year veteran at that point and a hall of famer. Let's give Teddy some time.
He definitely needs time. Favre was able to succeed for a year with the Vikes because he had the experience to read defenses and the skills to burn them. He also had the receivers he needed and the o-line actually did a pretty good job (although they got him killed in 2010).

I have to disagree that Bridgewater looks a lot different than he did last year (sorry, apparently I'm disagreeable today!). I think he looks like he did in a lot of games people seemingly chose to forget about this offseason. We're seeing the Bridgewater who played against the Bears, Bucs, Lions, Saints... an offseason of cherry-picked statistical analysis and hype articles seemed to raise expectations to what was, perhaps, an unrealistic degree. Bridgewater will likely have some very good games but he's not nearly ready to become one an upper echelon NFL QB.

None of that is to say he can't become an upper echelon QB someday but he still has a lot of work/developing to do and meanwhile, we're in the same situation we were in a few years ago: we have to watch, wait and hope this QB has the "right stuff".
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