Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24788
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
x 108

Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by dead_poet »

Vensel: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right for Vikings
No position causes as much concern as the offensive line. None. Not even close.

Only one of five starters — center John Sullivan — generates any sort of starter-level confidence at this point. That leaves four question marks up front. That’s not good considering a single weak link can topple an offensive line, which topples the quarterback, which topples the team, which sends us back to Mock Draft purgatory before Halloween .

Individually, there are concerns about injuries, consistency, talent and a combination of all three. Collectively, these guys have often played like individuals even when healthy. They’ve missed basic stunts and games that can’t continue.
http://www.startribune.com/offensive-li ... 304268041/
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Norv Zimmer
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:21 pm
x 5

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Norv Zimmer »

How is Kalil not a started level confidence? I can't believe how fast people give up on him, I mean he had the worst OG in the league next to him last year.
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24788
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
x 108

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by dead_poet »

Norv Zimmer wrote:How is Kalil not a started level confidence? I can't believe how fast people give up on him, I mean he had the worst OG in the league next to him last year.
It can work the other way, too. Some outlets had Kalil as one of the the worst-rated tackles.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Mothman »

I think Mark Craig is right to be so concerned about the o-line. It could prove to be this team's achilles heel and I'm amazed they haven't done more to address it this offseason.

I really liked this line in the article:
Here’s what I think I like most about Teddy Bridgewater:

He might be the only guy who hasn’t assumed that Teddy Bridgewater has already arrived as the sure-fire franchise quarterback with the career arc that can’t go anywhere but up over the next 10-12 years.
Thanks for the link, dead_poet. That was a solid read.
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9241
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 1117

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

dead_poet wrote: It can work the other way, too. Some outlets had Kalil as one of the the worst-rated tackles.
I also believe Turner has a different blocking scheme than Musgrave had. Not trying to necessarily defend Kalil because he did play bad but a new scheme needs to be taken into consideration. I always said that a good guard next to Kalil could help tremendously. It's always helped out big Phil IMO. That's why I wouldnt mind seeing a guy like Fusco moved to LG and plug Clemmings in at RG
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
losperros
Commissioner
Posts: 10041
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Location: Burbank, California

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by losperros »

Mothman wrote:I think Mark Craig is right to be so concerned about the o-line. It could prove to be this team's achilles heel and I'm amazed they haven't done more to address it this offseason.
Although I completely agree that the OL is a major concern (and was before the free agency or draft), I'm not that amazed the Vikings didn't address it more than they did. I believe the entire team had talent gaps, including some key parts of the defense. That's one of the reasons why I understood what the team was doing with the draft. I wish they could have addressed the OL more, and maybe they should have, but they need help at the positions they drafted. And they need some of the young guys to play well sooner than later.

One of the things that's worrisome about the OL, aside from its questionable talent level, is whether or not the guys can stay healthy. If any of the starters get knocked out of a game, I think we'll see how depth challenged the Vikings OL is. That could be catastrophic for the entire team.
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24788
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
x 108

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by dead_poet »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I also believe Turner has a different blocking scheme than Musgrave had.
They both mix schemes. Under Musgrave the Vikings utilized one of the most complex run blocking scheme in the league. They frequently mixed zone and power man concepts with almost every type of block in the playbook. Turner has run both and mixed them based on personnel though I believe her prefers more man. Chances are Kalil didn't see anything new under Turner.
Not trying to necessarily defend Kalil because he did play bad but a new scheme needs to be taken into consideration.
As I mentioned I don't think there was anything new. Perhaps terminology but I don't necessarily excuse that. I think it was more injury-related as well as technique and mental lapses.
I always said that a good guard next to Kalil could help tremendously. It's always helped out big Phil IMO.
It could also be said that Phil is simply a better tackle than Kalil. That's not to say he may not have an advantage playing next to a better guard, however Fusco is usually lauded more for his run blocking than his pass blocking.
That's why I wouldnt mind seeing a guy like Fusco moved to LG and plug Clemmings in at RG
I can see that working out. I could also see that as moving a guy from the position he's strong at to one he's not familiar and the net result is worse than if you had left him at RG and started someone else at LG. It'll be interesting to see what the line looks like week 1.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote: Although I completely agree that the OL is a major concern (and was before the free agency or draft), I'm not that amazed the Vikings didn't address it more than they did. I believe the entire team had talent gaps, including some key parts of the defense. That's one of the reasons why I understood what the team was doing with the draft. I wish they could have addressed the OL more, and maybe they should have, but they need help at the positions they drafted. And they need some of the young guys to play well sooner than later.
They sure do.

The reason I say I was amazed, Craig, is the Vikes have been expressing their excitement and confidence in Bridgewater practically from the moment he was drafted. If they believe he's their QB of the future, and if they thought Charlie Johnson was bad enough last year to let him go, why would they not work harder to improve the o-line that protects what I assume they think is their greatest player asset and the key to their future success? I agree there were other talent gaps to address too but if a team thinks they've found their long-term solution at QB, to me it makes sense to make keeping him upright and healthy priority #1.
One of the things that's worrisome about the OL, aside from its questionable talent level, is whether or not the guys can stay healthy. If any of the starters get knocked out of a game, I think we'll see how depth challenged the Vikings OL is. That could be catastrophic for the entire team.
... and Bridgewater in particular.

If Spielman ultimately fails as Vikes GM, I think it's going to be because he doesn't build logically enough.
HardcoreVikesFan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6652
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pm
x 21

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

I extremely happy the team took the offensive line seriously this offseason, but I am still concerned about the depth and talent on the line. I have been critical of Fusco his whole career, but I have to admit, the offensive line wasn't the same with him out. Same with Loadholt towards the end of the season. I still believe in Matt Kalil, but this has to be his year to step up and improve. The LG spot will be crucial to the success of the offensive line. I am holding out hope that David Yankey can win that battle.
A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.
losperros
Commissioner
Posts: 10041
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Location: Burbank, California

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by losperros »

Mothman wrote:The reason I say I was amazed, Craig, is the Vikes have been expressing their excitement and confidence in Bridgewater practically from the moment he was drafted. If they believe he's their QB of the future, and if they thought Charlie Johnson was bad enough last year to let him go, why would they not work harder to improve the o-line that protects what I assume they think is their greatest player asset and the key to their future success? I agree there were other talent gaps to address too but if a team thinks they've found their long-term solution at QB, to me it makes sense to make keeping him upright and healthy priority #1.
Good point. Bridgewater isn't going to improve if he's in a body cast. And he won't play well if the OL doesn't do its job.

In fact, none of the skill positions will play well (including Adrian Peterson) if the team can't dominate the LoS.
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9241
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 1117

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

losperros wrote: Good point. Bridgewater isn't going to improve if he's in a body cast. And he won't play well if the OL doesn't do its job.

In fact, none of the skill positions will play well (including Adrian Peterson) if the team can't dominate the LoS.
I think its a matter of HOW WELL can Teddy play if the OL doesn't play well also. They played awful last season and Teddy still looked pretty good and had no running game behind him. I think Teddy's and AP's skill will cover up a lot of flaws on the OL. We have to remember too, our offensive line isn't as bad as people think, it's just that we were missing our entire right side for a lot of the season, had a bum at LG, an injured LT that had some other issues going on and a good center. That line was pretty banged up last year and Teddy still played pretty good for the most part.

If our line can stay healthy, I'm really not worried. Giving Teddy a full offseason this year and getting AP back, I think you see a completely different offense. It's just we really got hit by the injury bug last year
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Tue May 19, 2015 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Mothman »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I think its a matter of HOW WELL can Teddy play if the OL doesn't play well. They played awful last season and Teddy still looked pretty good and had no running game behind him. I think Teddy's and AP's skill will cover up a lot of flaws on the OL. We have to remember too, our offensive line isn't as bad as people think, it's just that we were missing our entire right side for a lot of the season, had a bum at LG, an injured LT that had some other issues going on and a good center. That line was pretty banged up last year and Teddy still played pretty good for the most part.
It's a question of keeping him healthy and allowing him to improve, not just look "pretty good" under difficult circumstances.

The o-line's been erratic-to-bad in pass protection for years now and that was evident again last year. It's not like Loadholt was lost for the season in week 2. He was out there stinking' it up in several games. They may have had a bum at LG but they haven't really done anything that will clearly lead to improvement at that position this season.
User avatar
jackal
Strong Safety
Posts: 11583
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 am
Location: California
x 5

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by jackal »

I mean the team spent four three picks on the OL, and signed a few free agents.

I'm pretty sure Loadholt and Kalil have noticed their playing spot was heavily addressed in this draft.

I'm pretty sure Fusco and Sullivan are safe for now .....

I'm guessing LT RT LG are all up for grabs if someone out plays the incumbents they start.
(If Fusco moves to LG; then it Changes to LT RT RG)
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9241
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 1117

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote: It's a question of keeping him healthy and allowing him to improve, not just look "pretty good" under difficult circumstances.

The o-line's been erratic-to-bad in pass protection for years now and that was evident again last year. It's not like Loadholt was lost for the season in week 2. He was out there stinking' it up in several games. They may have had a bum at LG but they haven't really done anything that will clearly lead to improvement at that position this season.
:confused: I'm not ignoring the fact of keeping him healthy. Obviously that needs to happen. I never once said it didn't. I'm just saying, he's shown he can play good even when the line isn't. Loadholt wasn't really "stinking it up" when he was healthy. He was playing average. To say he was "stinking it up" is just over-exaggerating.

They drafted 3 offensive lineman (Clemmings, Thompson and Shepard) and have Berger and Yankey along with Fusco. I think they definitely addressed the OL. Just because the 3 they drafted weren't "labeled" LG doesn't mean they did nothing for the position. They obviously have a plan to what they are doing whether it's Fusco, Yankey, Clemmings or whoever, they aren't just going to stick some dud there. Based on what they do with Fusco, whatever guard position is left open, they will have a 5 man battle for the other spot and let the best man win. If anything, that's a good thing we have that many guys competing for that spot because it shows you what these guys can and can't do and see what kind of versatility they have. Just because we don't have a "clear-cut labeled starting LG" doesn't mean we didn't address the position. I find it VERY unlikely that every one of those 5 players are going to suck at guard. You'll find someone in that group that can get the job done
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Tue May 19, 2015 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9241
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 1117

Re: Offensive line tops list of things that must go right

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

jackal wrote:I mean the team spent four three picks on the OL, and signed a few free agents.

I'm pretty sure Loadholt and Kalil have noticed their playing spot was heavily addressed in this draft.

I'm pretty sure Fusco and Sullivan are safe for now .....

I'm guessing LT RT LG are all up for grabs if someone out plays the incumbents they start.
(If Fusco moves to LG; then it Changes to LT RT RG)
I would say Phil is still safe too. It's Kalil that will be on a short leash I think and whatever happens with that other guard spot
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Post Reply