Adrian Peterson Reinstated

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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by VikingLord »

Mothman wrote:For all we know they might be being very reasonable. They may even be demonstrating a great deal of integrity.... or maybe they're being obnoxious. A void of information tends to get filled by assumptions, premature conclusions and speculation.
Is it more reasonable to assume there is some hidden aspect to this, or to assume AD has been honest about why he wants out? I see what you're saying, but at the same time, its no more valid to say there might be some hidden thing here than to just take AD at his word. If he is taken at his word, then wouldn't you agree that the author's conclusion is valid?

Further, as I described in prior posts, it is really hard for me to believe there could be *any* reason AD could harbor such great resentments towards the Vikings as other than sitting him for the 2nd game of the season, little of what transpired was within their control. AD abused his son, and the league took action within ~ a week of that becoming public. If anything, the Vikings managed to make sure AD got paid for a substantial amount of the time he missed and did not cut him, nor have they publicly stated any intent other than to honor his current contract. So if AD has a problem with them because of that, in the interests of his own reputation he isn't doing himself any favors by leaving that in the closet.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by Mothman »

VikingLord wrote: Is it more reasonable to assume there is some hidden aspect to this, or to assume AD has been honest about why he wants out? I see what you're saying, but at the same time, its no more valid to say there might be some hidden thing here than to just take AD at his word. If he is taken at his word, then wouldn't you agree that the author's conclusion is valid?
Absolutely not because if we take Peterson at his word, he's "uneasy" about returning to the Vikings. He's explained that his wife doesn't him to return to Minnesota and expressed his feelings in a general sense but he hasn't been very specific about why he's uneasy with the organization. What he's said and what's been reported so far suggests there's been a breach of trust but we don't know the exact nature of that breach, which makes it pretty difficult to determine if Peterson has taken a reasonable position or not.

I think it's very likely that there's a significant aspect to this that hasn't been made public.
Further, as I described in prior posts, it is really hard for me to believe there could be *any* reason AD could harbor such great resentments towards the Vikings as other than sitting him for the 2nd game of the season, little of what transpired was within their control.
Again, I refer you to Adam Schefter's report:
When Adrian Peterson told USA Today there were people in Vikings' organization who did want him back and people in the organization who didn't, the person he was referring to who wasn't in favor of his return was the team's general counsel, Kevin Warren, per league sources. Warren and the NFL have been working to make sure Peterson did not return this season, per sources familiar with the case. Now there are questions about whether Peterson will return to Minnesota at all next season. There were those in the Vikings organization who were, and still are, in favor of Peterson's return, including the coaches, front office and players. But per sources, Peterson believes at least one individual didn't want him back.
The coaches, front office and players wanted him back. Who does that leave? Ownership. If I'm not mistake, Zygi hasn't said a word about any of this since the Vikes backtracked after activating Peterson for the NO game and had their "We just want to the right thing" press conference. As the Vikes General Counsel, if Warren worked with the league to devise a strategy to keep Peterson off the field for the remainder of the 2014 season, it's extremely unlikely he did it against the will of ownership only to be promoted a few months later. I understand what you're saying about the league determining Peterson's fate after his court case was settled but just because the league ultimately doled out Peterson's punishment, that doesn't mean the Vikings supposed actions were insignificant.

There are unanswered questions that could be very significant: what level of support, if any, did the Vikings assure Peterson they would give him in the wake of the scandal? Did they promise one thing and then do another? Did Warren work with the league, at the behest of ownership, to devise a strategy that kept Peterson off the field? If ownership did something to betray Peterson's trust in them, he may be taking a reasonable position here. If their trust in him has been broken by his actions, that would be reasonable too.
AD abused his son, and the league took action within ~ a week of that becoming public. If anything, the Vikings managed to make sure AD got paid for a substantial amount of the time he missed and did not cut him, nor have they publicly stated any intent other than to honor his current contract.
This issue of payment keeps being raised as if the Vikings did something charitable and weren't simply looking out for their own best interests. They could have cut him but they would have been releasing a very valuable commodity and they would have received nothing in return. That's obviously not something they wanted, or want, to do. Their choices were basically to pay him or cut him. They could have suspended him for 4 games but I'm not sure how that works with the bigger picture of a pending league suspension and once the suspension was lifted, they would have had to pay him and deal with what to do with him while the case remained in the court system, something they probably wished to avoid.

Anyway, I think it's very presumptuous for a former player who doesn't even know Peterson and who admittedly doesn't know the exact circumstances of the situation between Peterson and the Vikings to tell Peterson and his wife they're being unreasonable.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by VikingLord »

Mothman wrote: I think it's very likely that there's a significant aspect to this that hasn't been made public.
Is Peterson under some non-disclosure clause or something? He's largely bearing the burden of public scrutiny, so why not just spill the beans? Who is he protecting and, more importantly, why would he feel the need to protect anyone who supposedly "kept him down"? He wants out? Why not poison the water then and get it over with?
Mothman wrote: The coaches, front office and players wanted him back. Who does that leave? Ownership. If I'm not mistake, Zygi hasn't said a word about any of this since the Vikes backtracked after activating Peterson for the NO game and had their "We just want to the right thing" press conference. As the Vikes General Counsel, if Warren worked with the league to devise a strategy to keep Peterson off the field for the remainder of the 2014 season, it's extremely unlikely he did it against the will of ownership only to be promoted a few months later.
But Jim, what control did "ownership" have over this once the league got involved? Warren supposedly "worked with the league"? To do what? Goodell is the one who arbitrarily reinterpreted the rules, imposed the suspension, and whose office has fought tooth-and-nail to keep AD off the field. You talk about the Vikings and Warren as if they could really do anything about that. Maybe AD is mad because he thinks the Vikings should have lobbied the league directly on his behalf instead of the NFLPA? That would be a possible viewpoint I could understand, but even there, AD has to realize there are many other powerful interests at play. Just not cutting him and continuing to pay him speaks volumes about the level of overall support he had at the ownership level. The Wilfs are the ones writing those checks, not the league and certainly not this Warren guy.
Mothman wrote: There are unanswered questions that could be very significant: what level of support, if any, did the Vikings assure Peterson they would give him in the wake of the scandal? Did they promise one thing and then do another? Did Warren work with the league, at the behest of ownership, to devise a strategy that kept Peterson off the field? If ownership did something to betray Peterson's trust in them, he may be taking a reasonable position here. If their trust in him has been broken by his actions, that would be reasonable too.
On the last point, we already know the answer. All contracts contain behavior clauses. AD's behavior cost his team 15 games last year without him. If anyone has a valid trust issue here, it is the Vikings IMHO.

But let's focus on the other questions. What level of assurance do you think the Vikings could give Peterson about anything once the league took it over? And as before, what could Warren have done to influence it one way or the other once that happened? And if, as some suggest, the Vikings were sneaky about something (even given they really couldn't do jack after the league took it over), why hasn't Peterson or his agent just come out and said that?
Mothman wrote: This issue of payment keeps being raised as if the Vikings did something charitable and weren't simply looking out for their own best interests. They could have cut him but they would have been releasing a very valuable commodity and they would have received nothing in return. That's obviously not something they wanted, or want, to do.
Same thing could have been said about Ray Rice and the Ravens, yet the Ravens wasted no time cutting Rice. Plus, AD could very well have been cooling his heels in jail right now had he not copped a plea deal, and he still hasn't been fully reinstated by the league as they are appealing the ruling vacating his suspension, all of which just highlights the LACK of control over this situation the Vikings actually had and still have. The bottom line is, for what the Vikings *could* control, their demonstrated actions suggest they were more than supportive of Peterson and still are, even going so far as to fly Spielman and Zimmer down to his house in Texas to kiss his behind.
Mothman wrote: Anyway, I think it's very presumptuous for a former player who doesn't even know Peterson and who admittedly doesn't know the exact circumstances of the situation between Peterson and the Vikings to tell Peterson and his wife they're being unreasonable.
If I wrote the article, I would have reached a slightly different conclusion based on the facts as they are known, and that is that AD has another agenda and he's using this situation as cover to implement it. Could be he wants to play for another team. Could be he doesn't like Minnesota and would rather play somewhere warmer. Could be he wants to be on a Superbowl contender. But whatever "it" is, neither he nor his agent have come out and said it because if something like that were behind his actions it would make him look like a real #### and he knows it.

I just continue to strongly believe attempts to implicate the Vikings in his madness are laughable. The only legit beef he can have is with the league itself for how it implemented his punishment. That was wrong, but of course, directing his anger at the league won't get him traded somewhere he wants to be (other than back on the field, of course).
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by Mothman »

VikingLord wrote:Is Peterson under some non-disclosure clause or something? He's largely bearing the burden of public scrutiny, so why not just spill the beans? Who is he protecting and, more importantly, why would he feel the need to protect anyone who supposedly "kept him down"? He wants out? Why not poison the water then and get it over with?
Maybe he doesn't feel it's something that should be conducted publicly. :confused:
But Jim, what control did "ownership" have over this once the league got involved? Warren supposedly "worked with the league"? To do what?
I don't know. If I did, I'd post it but it's not necessarily a question of control. It may be a matter of what actions were taken. I have no idea what, if anything, went on but I assume, as the (former) General Counsel or an NFL team, that Warren has a certain degree of legal expertise. Maybe he worked with the league's people in some capacity to devise a strategy that would keep Peterson off the field for the remainder of 2014. Maybe he lobbied the league on behalf of the Wilfs to keep Peterson off the field, help the Vikes recoup some of the money they had to pay him while he was on the exempt list and enable them to avoid the PR nightmare of having him return to the field 2 months after he was charged. We don't have any substantial information beyond Schefter's report.
Goodell is the one who arbitrarily reinterpreted the rules, imposed the suspension, and whose office has fought tooth-and-nail to keep AD off the field. You talk about the Vikings and Warren as if they could really do anything about that. Maybe AD is mad because he thinks the Vikings should have lobbied the league directly on his behalf instead of the NFLPA? That would be a possible viewpoint I could understand, but even there, AD has to realize there are many other powerful interests at play. Just not cutting him and continuing to pay him speaks volumes about the level of overall support he had at the ownership level.
As I've already said, I think the Vikings were clearly acting in their own best interests. Paying him money they were obligated to pay him if they wanted to retain his rights is not an act of generosity.
But let's focus on the other questions. What level of assurance do you think the Vikings could give Peterson about anything once the league took it over?
They knew about what happened before the news broke and before the league got involved. Who knows what was said at any point along the way, what assurances were made, etc.?

This horse has been pretty thoroughly flogged. The main point is simple: we don't know! We don't know what conversations occurred between Peterson and the Vikings, what may have been promised, what trust may have been breached, what influence, if any, the Vikings may have had with the NFL, and so on and so on. We have very little information which is why I don't think we should be rushing to judgment about it.
Same thing could have been said about Ray Rice and the Ravens, yet the Ravens wasted no time cutting Rice.
Different player, different situation... Rice didn't have Peterson's value. In fact, he was coming off a pretty poor year.
If I wrote the article, I would have reached a slightly different conclusion based on the facts as they are known, and that is that AD has another agenda and he's using this situation as cover to implement it. Could be he wants to play for another team. Could be he doesn't like Minnesota and would rather play somewhere warmer. Could be he wants to be on a Superbowl contender. But whatever "it" is, neither he nor his agent have come out and said it because if something like that were behind his actions it would make him look like a real #### and he knows it.
In other words, we're right back to "we don't know". :)
I just continue to strongly believe attempts to implicate the Vikings in his madness are laughable.
What "madness" and how, exactly, has he implicated them ? He's "uneasy" with them and, according to his agent, he wants to play elsewhere. One of the things I find exasperating about all of this is all the things Peterson has been accused of doing that he hasn't done. He hasn't implicated the Vikings of any wrongdoing. He spoke briefly about a lack of support somewhere within the organization. That's it. He's repeatedly accused of trying to shift blame for his actions onto others but that hasn't happened either. He hasn't held out. He hasn't failed to report to a mandatory team activity. He's been accused of being ungrateful but as far as I know, he's said nothing to suggest that either. He's been accused of failing to take responsibility for his actions and the consequences they set in motion. When, exactly did that happen?

Everybody seems in a rush to judge.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote: Maybe he doesn't feel it's something that should be conducted publicly. :confused:
I don't know. If I did, I'd post it but it's not necessarily a question of control. It may be a matter of what actions were taken. I have no idea what, if anything, went on but I assume, as the (former) General Counsel or an NFL team, that Warren has a certain degree of legal expertise. Maybe he worked with the league's people in some capacity to devise a strategy that would keep Peterson off the field for the remainder of 2014. Maybe he lobbied the league on behalf of the Wilfs to keep Peterson off the field, help the Vikes recoup some of the money they had to pay him while he was on the exempt list and enable them to avoid the PR nightmare of having him return to the field 2 months after he was charged. We don't have any substantial information beyond Schefter's report.
As I've already said, I think the Vikings were clearly acting in their own best interests. Paying him money they were obligated to pay him if they wanted to retain his rights is not an act of generosity.
They knew about what happened before the news broke and before the league got involved. Who knows what was said at any point along the way, what assurances were made, etc.?

This horse has been pretty thoroughly flogged. The main point is simple: we don't know! We don't know what conversations occurred between Peterson and the Vikings, what may have been promised, what trust may have been breached, what influence, if any, the Vikings may have had with the NFL, and so on and so on. We have very little information which is why I don't think we should be rushing to judgment about it.
Different player, different situation... Rice didn't have Peterson's value. In fact, he was coming off a pretty poor year.
In other words, we're right back to "we don't know". :)
What "madness" and how, exactly, has he implicated them ? He's "uneasy" with them and, according to his agent, he wants to play elsewhere. One of the things I find exasperating about all of this is all the things Peterson has been accused of doing that he hasn't done. He hasn't implicated the Vikings of any wrongdoing. He spoke briefly about a lack of support somewhere within the organization. That's it. He's repeatedly accused of trying to shift blame for his actions onto others but that hasn't happened either. He hasn't held out. He hasn't failed to report to a mandatory team activity. He's been accused of being ungrateful but as far as I know, he's said nothing to suggest that either. He's been accused of failing to take responsibility for his actions and the consequences they set in motion. When, exactly did that happen?

Everybody seems in a rush to judge.
Yep, its all pretty ridiculous. People really want this guy to be a villain.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

I think AD feels like he is still in college, playing RB, being the hero and doing anything he wants. I dont think he is all that bright, and I think Droga is playing him. AD never grew up, heck, even last year he threw a sex party for his nephew? Beating the heck out of a 4 year old? Literally. Why? Grow up, AD. and coming in to a party, riding a camel? At the age of 30? I just dont think the guy thinks things through, or is too intelligent, and maybe, easily misled (Droga). When he realizes Rick isnt going to take anything less then a 1st (and then some), he will play for the Vikings. Maybe a bit bitter at first, but hes the last player in the NFL that I can see just sitting on the bench all year, or not coming with the team. He has to pad his stats.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by 808vikingsfan »

PurpleKoolaid wrote:I think AD feels like he is still in college, playing RB, being the hero and doing anything he wants. I dont think he is all that bright, and I think Droga is playing him. AD never grew up, heck, even last year he threw a sex party for his nephew? Beating the heck out of a 4 year old? Literally. Why? Grow up, AD. and coming in to a party, riding a camel? At the age of 30? I just dont think the guy thinks things through, or is too intelligent, and maybe, easily misled (Droga). When he realizes Rick isnt going to take anything less then a 1st (and then some), he will play for the Vikings. Maybe a bit bitter at first, but hes the last player in the NFL that I can see just sitting on the bench all year, or not coming with the team. He has to pad his stats.
I look at it differently. I can't help but think AD has felt helpless. He has had no control over his career ever since game 2 of the 2014 season. He's lost current and future sponsors. He's been told what to do by the NFLPA, the front office, the commissioner, and his agent. Even though the Vikings hold all the cards, this stance is the most control he's had in a long time.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

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808vikingsfan wrote: I look at it differently. I can't help but think AD has felt helpless. He has had no control over his career ever since game 2 of the 2014 season. He's lost current and future sponsors. He's been told what to do by the NFLPA, the front office, the commissioner, and his agent. Even though the Vikings hold all the cards, this stance is the most control he's had in a long time.


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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by The Breeze »

I am really enjoying this latest dialogue between the board members here and would just add one thing:
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IF there was in fact an coordinated effort with the league and the Vikings legal counsel, then there was, at the time, no reason that I can think of to not keep AD abreast of that dialogue due to it being more about the sponsor/public image of the organization vs any personal feelings they had toward Peterson. If he's reached the conclusion that he's solely valued as a commodity by the guys signing the checks rather than a member of the 'family'(they were willing to put his face on the new stadium, or so it seems) then it could represent to him that ownership is viewing him no differently than the way the media in Minny seems to... ergo "you are our property first and foremost. If you were any other player we'd have cut you months ago."
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This might be a "no duh" scenario to outsiders (fans media) and players of lesser importance throughout the league...but it may have completely shocked AD and his family who I consider (AD) more naive than stupid.
Throw in that things became decidely worse after the face to face with Zygi and it leaves some room for the assumption that this could be a personal conflict more about personal sovierngty(sp) and respect than money.
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They are basically handing him $12m+ to do what he loves next year and he is still saying no thanks.
He already has truckloads of money.
He openly admitted musing about retirement when this first got going for real.......how far is he willing to go is my question?
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by IrishViking »

The Breeze wrote:I am really enjoying this latest dialogue between the board members here and would just add one thing:
-
IF there was in fact an coordinated effort with the league and the Vikings legal counsel, then there was, at the time, no reason that I can think of to not keep AD abreast of that dialogue due to it being more about the sponsor/public image of the organization vs any personal feelings they had toward Peterson. If he's reached the conclusion that he's solely valued as a commodity by the guys signing the checks rather than a member of the 'family'(they were willing to put his face on the new stadium, or so it seems) then it could represent to him that ownership is viewing him no differently than the way the media in Minny seems to... ergo "you are our property first and foremost. If you were any other player we'd have cut you months ago."
-
This might be a "no duh" scenario to outsiders (fans media) and players of lesser importance throughout the league...but it may have completely shocked AD and his family who I consider (AD) more naive than stupid.
Throw in that things became decidely worse after the face to face with Zygi and it leaves some room for the assumption that this could be a personal conflict more about personal sovierngty(sp) and respect than money.
-
They are basically handing him $12m+ to do what he loves next year and he is still saying no thanks.
He already has truckloads of money.
He openly admitted musing about retirement when this first got going for real.......how far is he willing to go is my question?
Well too be fair he kinda shot himself in the foot with his suggestion being the Olympics. AP is a phenomenal athlete but he is great because he is just an average all around amazing specimen in all categories, Olympic athletes are the poster children for specialization. Not to mention he is rapidly aging out of a lot of categories. Him throwing the Olympics out there was the same as him going "I HAVE NO PLAN B"
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by Demi »

Yep, its all pretty ridiculous. People really want this guy to be a villain.
You mean the ones that praised him like some Greek god for years? Who defended him even through this mess? Who thought they should hang onto him no matter what? And now don't? They *want* him to be the villain?

No, beating his kid with a stick, all the stupid crap he says, talking to another owner about wanting to play their, trying to force a trade. Blaming the team. THAT made him a villain.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by fiestavike »

Demi wrote: You mean the ones that praised him like some Greek god for years? Who defended him even through this mess? Who thought they should hang onto him no matter what? And now don't? They *want* him to be the villain?

No, beating his kid with a stick, all the stupid crap he says, talking to another owner about wanting to play their, trying to force a trade. Blaming the team. THAT made him a villain.
Plenty of room for criticism. I was critical of him before any of his parenting practices became public knowledge. Nonetheless this has been blown completely out of proportion from the start.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by mosscarter »

after he plead guilty to his crime i was ready to move on (and probably speak for most people here too). but, his idiotic behavior that followed is what has everyone upset. i'm actually glad the team is refusing to give into his demands. i think the best we can hope for at this point is that he is very angry come next september.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by Superfreak84 »

mosscarter wrote:after he plead guilty to his crime i was ready to move on (and probably speak for most people here too). but, his idiotic behavior that followed is what has everyone upset. i'm actually glad the team is refusing to give into his demands. i think the best we can hope for at this point is that he is very angry come next september.
I'm starting to think there is something seriously wrong with this guy mental health wise. I mean I've liked the guy up until now. If he wasn't gifted with his athleticism he would no doubt be serving time somewhere.
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Re: Adrian Peterson (not) Reinstated

Post by Pseudo Everything »

mosscarter wrote:after he plead guilty to his crime i was ready to move on (and probably speak for most people here too). but, his idiotic behavior that followed is what has everyone upset. i'm actually glad the team is refusing to give into his demands. i think the best we can hope for at this point is that he is very angry come next september.
Agreed, but if he is still on the team in September I hope all of his anger is directed externally at opponents and not internally at the organization, coaches, players, etc.

I think there is a high probability that Peterson holds out from training camp (and possibly beyond). If he does return to the team I'd say it's 50-50 that his behavior will be that of a malcontent and a divisive presence in the locker room. He badly wants out of Minnesota and if the Vikings aren't willing to take low-ball trade offers his only options are to suck it up and play ... or ... force the Vikings hand by making them realize that his absence is better than his presence.

I expect there are a lot of Viking fans who think that Peterson would never do something like this because it would be completely out of character for him. Don't underestimate how much bad blood Peterson harbors towards the Viking organization (even if there's very little basis for him to hold such a position). When Dogra said that Peterson would never play another down for the Vikings, that's not something a top agent would say flippantly and Dogra certainly is one of the top agents for NFL players. Pretty sure that Dogra has thought this out and has a strategy for forcing the Vikings hand that includes more than just asking the Vikings for a trade or to be released.

I've read a few articles recently have have parroted the line that Peterson doesn't have any cards to play in this fiasco. I don't agree with that at all. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Terrell Owens in Philly, but I think it would be unrealistic to rule out the idea that if he shows up that he'll be a malcontent. If you hang on to the idea that today's Adrian Peterson is the same as the old Adrian Peterson you might end up being disappointed.
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