Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

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Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

The inevitable post-Super Bowl article about the Vikings chances:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 91591.html
The Monday after the Super Bowl, also known as the most reflective day of the year for fans of the 30 NFL teams not participating in the season’s biggest game, will bring a moment when you’re reliving Super Bowl XLIX with your co-workers or friends and the subject will shift to your own rooting interest.

“So, how close are the Vikings to winning a Super Bowl?”
I was asking myself that same question yesterday. :lol:
The franchise turned 55 on Wednesday and is still in pursuit of its first Super Bowl victory after striking out four times in the 1970s. The Vikings have witnessed 38 seasons come and go, some forgettable and others unforgettable for all the wrong reasons, without an opportunity to hoist the Lombardi Trophy.

If it happens next year, it’d be a miracle. So temper those expectations, but it’s understandable to have a sense of optimism after head coach Mike Zimmer’s first season.
What are your thoughts, VMB?
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by Cliff »

Right now it'd be nice if they could just be a 'good' team and that very much rests on Bridgewater development. If he continues trending up the team's offense will get better, the defense should continue to improve under Zimmer in year two. If his past is an indicator the defense might even be one of the best in the league next year.

However, if Teddy flounders (or what I'm actually more scared of; gets injured in some way that lingers) things can get ugly instead. The rest of the team isn't good enough to get into the playoffs (let alone Superbowl) without strong QB play (maybe no team is anymore).

Along the lines of offense, knowing what's happening with Peterson would be nice. They need to start investing his salary cap space in other players to help the team if he won't be back.

Over the long haul that might actually be better for the team, not only from a 'PR' standpoint, but also from the standpoint that they'll have more cap space to fill maybe 2-3 holes on the team and Peterson's 'ultra productive' days are closer to the end than beginning.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by mansquatch »

I actually had a take away from last nights game that I felt was relevant to the Vikings.

Last night we saw two organization with vastly different philosophies on how to win in the NFL. The Patriots are a model of competitive precision. They try to be do everything exactly right. Their offense is predicated on quick and methodical short passes, power running, and misdirection.

By contrast the Seahawks are a strong power running team with a passing game that basically tries to get lucky on the big play. Seattle relies on it's elite defense to keep things close and then tries to win the game by getting lucky a few times on offense. (just ask Green Bay)

Obviously in every NFL game luck is going to have some baring, but in the end what team do you want to be? IMO, the Patriots are the consistent choice and yet, Seattle's horseshoe was one terrible playcall away from being in a position to win that game. IMO, this says a lot about how much Seattle relies on their defense. If that defense is not it's elite self, then that game is likely a complete blowout. If anything this past post season shows that Defense still wins championships.

I hate to admit it, but I am starting to see why the NFL has put the rules so in favor of passing offense and why it protects QBs as much as it does. In the NFC the past three division champion QBs have been Colin Kaepernick and Russel Wilson twice. Neither QB is what someone would describe as an elite passer. Both play on teams with dominating defenses. In many ways these guys win games more by the plays they do not make vs the plays they do make. Of course, once you get to the playoffs the defenses are good enough that you have to be able to make plays and the men get separated from the boys.

I think the Vikings are headed in a solid direction with Zimmer if he can maintain and improve his defense and Babyface can continue to develop then I think there is reason to be excited. Babyface looks to be a legitimate passing talent, not a guy who relies on the horseshow. Can the defense play well enough for 16 games? Time will tell, but I like the foundation.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by losperros »

The first thing the Vikings need is an identity, which is something that they haven't had beyond mediocrity for quite some time. Both the Pats and the Hawks have identity, and they use it well.

Bottom line, when a team finds itself, then it has to use that process to its fullest. And then they don't end up playing below .500 football.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

Cliff wrote:Right now it'd be nice if they could just be a 'good' team and that very much rests on Bridgewater development. If he continues trending up the team's offense will get better, the defense should continue to improve under Zimmer in year two. If his past is an indicator the defense might even be one of the best in the league next year.
That info Dead–poet posted the other day about how Zimmer's defenses have performed in their second season was pretty encouraging so hopefully, the defense will indeed continue to get better.

It would definitely be nice to see the Vikings become a good team soon. Right now, a Super Bowl win still seems like a relatively distant dream to me but becoming a good team seems achievable soon. As you said, a lot will depend on Bridgewater's development. I fear a sophomore slump or an injury. Maybe that's just "Vikes fan conditioning" at work. :)
Along the lines of offense, knowing what's happening with Peterson would be nice. They need to start investing his salary cap space in other players to help the team if he won't be back.

Over the long haul that might actually be better for the team, not only from a 'PR' standpoint, but also from the standpoint that they'll have more cap space to fill maybe 2-3 holes on the team and Peterson's 'ultra productive' days are closer to the end than beginning.
They are but just how close to the end is difficult to determine and since he was just spared almost an entire season of wear and tear, I'm thinking he could have several very strong years left in him. It's really rough on the Vikings that Goodell set up peterson's punishment the way he did because it makes it very difficult for them to figure out how to handle their cap and spend in free agency this year.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

For reasons far exceeding football, that last Super Bowl loss was the worst day of my life. My dad, never a Vikings fan, busted on me the whole game about my Vikings and "the little fairy Tarkenton," after which I uttered the words, "I hate you." Not exactly an uncommon thing for a 16-year-old to say, but it ended up being the last thing I ever said to him -- he died of a heart attack after the game.

So I have been waiting patiently for the Vikings to make it back.

It upsets me that the national media has consistently failed to give the 70s-era Vikings their due. Last week, someone in the media said the 90s Bills should be considered a dynasty because it takes a great team and organization to make the Super Bowl four times in a decade. No mention of the Vikings. It makes me realize that the ONLY way the Minnesota Vikings will ever be held in any sort of esteem is to win the Super Bowl.

One thing that gives me hope ...

The 70s Vikings were a great organization, top to bottom. Great players, great coach, and a great GM in Jim Finks. They had tremendous discipline, and they played for each other. I see similarities in our current organization, and especially in Mike Zimmer. Obviously, I'm not saying Zimmer is anywhere near Grant as a coach, but I see similarities in his style and values. His players respect him in much the way Grant's players respected Bud, and he's no-nonsense like Bud was. Both value solid fundamentals and mental toughness. Both value selflessness and team-first, and won't put up with anything else. I don't know if it will ever result in a title, but it starts with a great foundation -- Mike Zimmer represents the closest thing I've seen to a solid foundation in quite some time. Spielman has made some good moves as GM since the breakup of the ridiculous TOA, and I think he'll do even better as he learns the type of player Zimmer wants.

Will any of this result in a Super Bowl win, or even another appearance? No idea. I sure hope it happens in my lifetime, though. Would erase a few demons for me personally.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

mansquatch wrote:I actually had a take away from last nights game that I felt was relevant to the Vikings.

Last night we saw two organization with vastly different philosophies on how to win in the NFL. The Patriots are a model of competitive precision. They try to be do everything exactly right. Their offense is predicated on quick and methodical short passes, power running, and misdirection.

By contrast the Seahawks are a strong power running team with a passing game that basically tries to get lucky on the big play. Seattle relies on it's elite defense to keep things close and then tries to win the game by getting lucky a few times on offense. (just ask Green Bay)

Obviously in every NFL game luck is going to have some baring, but in the end what team do you want to be? IMO, the Patriots are the consistent choice and yet, Seattle's horseshoe was one terrible playcall away from being in a position to win that game. IMO, this says a lot about how much Seattle relies on their defense. If that defense is not it's elite self, then that game is likely a complete blowout. If anything this past post season shows that Defense still wins championships.

I hate to admit it, but I am starting to see why the NFL has put the rules so in favor of passing offense and why it protects QBs as much as it does. In the NFC the past three division champion QBs have been Colin Kaepernick and Russel Wilson twice. Neither QB is what someone would describe as an elite passer. Both play on teams with dominating defenses. In many ways these guys win games more by the plays they do not make vs the plays they do make. Of course, once you get to the playoffs the defenses are good enough that you have to be able to make plays and the men get separated from the boys.

I think the Vikings are headed in a solid direction with Zimmer if he can maintain and improve his defense and Babyface can continue to develop then I think there is reason to be excited. Babyface looks to be a legitimate passing talent, not a guy who relies on the horseshow. Can the defense play well enough for 16 games? Time will tell, but I like the foundation.
It's one of the reasons I really want Peterson back in a Vikings uniform for the next few years: a potent running game and a strong defense can keep a team in most games. From there, you need the QB and passing game to make the plays that turn close games into wins. That's obviously a simple way to express it but it's a basic formula that works and we've seen it work time and time again. As Craig said, it helps to have an identity. Given their choice of head coach, I'm guessing the Vikings want a big part of their identity to be their defense. I love that because I've always loved defense. If they can keep building on that side of the ball and get their running game back to being the formidable "hammer" it was prior to last year, I think they could go places quickly, especially if Bridgewater develops as everyone obviously hopes. I can certainly see the optimistic view that this team could be just a couple years away from seriously contending for a title.

There's a pessimistic view as well, of course but I think we're all too familiar with how that story goes.

One of the takeaways I had watching Seattle and NE play yesterday was the importance of depth and player development. I've come to believe depth is a lot more crucial to winning a championship than I used to think and it's an area where I think the Vikes need quite a bit of work.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by Mothman »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:For reasons far exceeding football, that last Super Bowl loss was the worst day of my life. My dad, never a Vikings fan, busted on me the whole game about my Vikings and "the little fairy Tarkenton," after which I uttered the words, "I hate you." Not exactly an uncommon thing for a 16-year-old to say, but it ended up being the last thing I ever said to him -- he died of a heart attack after the game.

So I have been waiting patiently for the Vikings to make it back.

It upsets me that the national media has consistently failed to give the 70s-era Vikings their due. Last week, someone in the media said the 90s Bills should be considered a dynasty because it takes a great team and organization to make the Super Bowl four times in a decade. No mention of the Vikings. It makes me realize that the ONLY way the Minnesota Vikings will ever be held in any sort of esteem is to win the Super Bowl.

One thing that gives me hope ...

The 70s Vikings were a great organization, top to bottom. Great players, great coach, and a great GM in Jim Finks. They had tremendous discipline, and they played for each other. I see similarities in our current organization, and especially in Mike Zimmer. Obviously, I'm not saying Zimmer is anywhere near Grant as a coach, but I see similarities in his style and values. His players respect him in much the way Grant's players respected Bud, and he's no-nonsense like Bud was. Both value solid fundamentals and mental toughness. Both value selflessness and team-first, and won't put up with anything else. I don't know if it will ever result in a title, but it starts with a great foundation -- Mike Zimmer represents the closest thing I've seen to a solid foundation in quite some time. Spielman has made some good moves as GM since the breakup of the ridiculous TOA, and I think he'll do even better as he learns the type of player Zimmer wants.

Will any of this result in a Super Bowl win, or even another appearance? No idea. I sure hope it happens in my lifetime, though. Would erase a few demons for me personally.
It sure sounds like you have some extra incentive to want that Super Bowl win and I hope they get it for you soon. My heart goes out to you. It had to be hard to come to terms with that.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

*EDIT* Well Vegas has put us at 50 - 1 odds to win the Super Bowl for this upcoming season. :lol:

Who knows. It does get a little old seeing this team constantly ranked with teams in the bottom of the league. Unfortunately, until this team makes the postseason and wins the Super Bowl, it will not get the respect it deserves.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by PurpleMustReign »

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:*EDIT* Well Vegas has put us at 50 - 1 odds to win the Super Bowl for this upcoming season. :lol:

Who knows. It does get a little old seeing this team constantly ranked with teams in the bottom of the league. Unfortunately, until this team makes the postseason and wins the Super Bowl, it will not get the respect it deserves.
That's actually better than I thought it would be...
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by mansquatch »

Another interesting thing from yesterday was the vast difference in leadership styles between NE and SEA. Carrol is very much a coach that lets his players be themselves. Belicik definitely seems to preach a more stark professionalism. Both methods work. I wonder though, how is the SEA locker room going to handle that loss given how much that team rides the emotional wave?

I have to admit, and maybe this is my own bias, that I think if that game were played in multiple iterations, the Patriots would come out on top more often than not. I still think that the big play "luck" factor is a part of the Seattle game where the Patriots leave nothing to chance.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by PurpleMustReign »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:For reasons far exceeding football, that last Super Bowl loss was the worst day of my life. My dad, never a Vikings fan, busted on me the whole game about my Vikings and "the little fairy Tarkenton," after which I uttered the words, "I hate you." Not exactly an uncommon thing for a 16-year-old to say, but it ended up being the last thing I ever said to him -- he died of a heart attack after the game.
Wow, I am sorry to hear that story, Kapp. All the more reason that I wish the Vikings would win the Super Bowl soon!!
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by losperros »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:For reasons far exceeding football, that last Super Bowl loss was the worst day of my life. My dad, never a Vikings fan, busted on me the whole game about my Vikings and "the little fairy Tarkenton," after which I uttered the words, "I hate you." Not exactly an uncommon thing for a 16-year-old to say, but it ended up being the last thing I ever said to him -- he died of a heart attack after the game.

So I have been waiting patiently for the Vikings to make it back.

It upsets me that the national media has consistently failed to give the 70s-era Vikings their due. Last week, someone in the media said the 90s Bills should be considered a dynasty because it takes a great team and organization to make the Super Bowl four times in a decade. No mention of the Vikings. It makes me realize that the ONLY way the Minnesota Vikings will ever be held in any sort of esteem is to win the Super Bowl.

One thing that gives me hope ...

The 70s Vikings were a great organization, top to bottom. Great players, great coach, and a great GM in Jim Finks. They had tremendous discipline, and they played for each other. I see similarities in our current organization, and especially in Mike Zimmer. Obviously, I'm not saying Zimmer is anywhere near Grant as a coach, but I see similarities in his style and values. His players respect him in much the way Grant's players respected Bud, and he's no-nonsense like Bud was. Both value solid fundamentals and mental toughness. Both value selflessness and team-first, and won't put up with anything else. I don't know if it will ever result in a title, but it starts with a great foundation -- Mike Zimmer represents the closest thing I've seen to a solid foundation in quite some time. Spielman has made some good moves as GM since the breakup of the ridiculous TOA, and I think he'll do even better as he learns the type of player Zimmer wants.

Will any of this result in a Super Bowl win, or even another appearance? No idea. I sure hope it happens in my lifetime, though. Would erase a few demons for me personally.
Nice post. I'm very sorry to hear about your experience with your Dad during and after the game. Life hurts that way.

Zimmer appears to be the most complete head coach the Vikings have had in a while, instead of a coach that knows one thing but not the other.

As Jim said, player development and depth is critically important. I believe Zimmer and Spielman both understand that. I'm hoping we're presently seeing the rebuilding of the Vikings as a consistent formidable team. And this time a winner in the Super Bowl as well.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. The irony is that even though my dad hated the Vikings, HE is the reason I became a Vikings fan. He took me to my first game back in 1969, Joe Kapp tossed 7 TD passes, and I was hooked!

It's also why I was totally in favor of the Brett Favre signing. I want a championship, and I don't care how.

I wasn't sure of the Bridgewater pick, and I had my doubts about him during the first half of the season. But his play down the stretch leads me to believe we may finally have our man under center. Obviously I think highly of Mike Zimmer, so to my mind, we've got two of the hardest positions to find.

As you guys said, if we can draft and develop well, we might just be on the right track.
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Re: Tesfatsion: Super Bowl thoughts: What about the Vikings?

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

http://q.usatoday.com/2015/02/02/predic ... uper-bowl/

Well, hey. We got a mention at least. Lol. :lol:
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