I agree as well but be careful because you could be stirring up an all out war with that commentPurple bruise wrote:I think that the Vikes are fortunate to have one of the better GMs in the entire league, who has the balls to make crucial trades in the draft, witness the last several drafts
Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need building
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
Well yeah that's what I'm saying as well. Have him only play the slot. As for the money part, I was just saying I don't want a guy on our team making that kind of money as a #4 or #5 CB barely playing. I just wasn't sure if you were saying actually replace him in general or just put him in the slot but now I got ya!frosted wrote: I think Munnerlyn should exclusively play the slot. I don't think he should be playing outside in our base defense. I don't care what he's making, tbh. In any case, we play so much nickel, he's essentially starting anyways if we dedicate him to playing only in nickel packages. I think he's much better playing the slot than being the de facto starting CB playing on the outside in our base defense.
YMMV.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
Like trading 4 picks for a guy who a competent offensive coordinator benches for a guy signed off a practice squad?Pondering Her Percy wrote: I agree as well but be careful because you could be stirring up an all out war with that comment
Don't underestimate what a good veteran coaching staff is doing for the lack of talent they have. The fact we're even close to .500 with the injuries and complete lack of depth this team has should speak for the coaches...
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
.....told you so PB. I've fought this battle way too many times so I'm going to stay out of it. The only thing I will say is that this past offseason, Bleacher Report ranked Spielman the #1 GM in the NFLDemi wrote: Like trading 4 picks for a guy who a competent offensive coordinator benches for a guy signed off a practice squad?
Don't underestimate what a good veteran coaching staff is doing for the lack of talent they have. The fact we're even close to .500 with the injuries and complete lack of depth this team has should speak for the coaches...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089 ... erformance
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
sive coordinator benches for a guy signed off a practice squad?
Don't underestimate what a good veteran coaching staff is doing for the lack of talent they have. The fact we're even close to .500 with the injuries and complete lack of depth this team has should speak for the coaches...[/quote]
.....told you so PB. I've fought this battle way too many times so I'm going to stay out of it. The only thing I will say is that this past offseason, Bleacher Report ranked Spielman the #1 GM in the NFL
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089 ... erformance[/quote]
Just consider the source and then take it with a grain of salt
Don't underestimate what a good veteran coaching staff is doing for the lack of talent they have. The fact we're even close to .500 with the injuries and complete lack of depth this team has should speak for the coaches...[/quote]
.....told you so PB. I've fought this battle way too many times so I'm going to stay out of it. The only thing I will say is that this past offseason, Bleacher Report ranked Spielman the #1 GM in the NFL
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089 ... erformance[/quote]
Just consider the source and then take it with a grain of salt
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
Pondering Her Percy wrote: .....told you so PB. I've fought this battle way too many times so I'm going to stay out of it. The only thing I will say is that this past offseason, Bleacher Report ranked Spielman the #1 GM in the NFL
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089 ... erformance
Hey, look, they're both!Will the real Minnesota Vikings please stand up in 2014?
Are they the club that finished 10-6 two years ago and grabbed a wild-card berth? Or are they the team that stumbled out of the gate this past season and wound up a disappointing 5-10-1?
A .500 a team that finally has competent coaching with some questionable talent/depth.
Same people were defending Ponder/whoever was the coach for the last decade. What is the purpose? Is it possible to look at the situation and analyze it, or just make excuses for everything that is even a little questionable and push everything that is positive?
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
I didn't want to start a new thread, so I picked one relating to the offense...
I was rewatching one of the 2014 games, and they mentioned the Vikes were the worst (at that point in the season) in points per drive. That's a pretty interesting stat, and fairly easy to calculate. I also had done the same calculations for the historically good 2009 and 1998 offenses. (*methodology below). I was interested in looking at the Vikings offense in the first half of the season vs. the second half, and that led on to other things.
From the last 15 years, I came up with an average of 2.0 points per drive for the Vikings. That doesn't include special teams or defensive TD's of course. The Vikings have averaged 11 meaningful drives per game since 1998, so the offenses generally produce about 22 points per game on average.
This year's opponents:
For the first 8 games of the 2015 season, the Vikes the Vikes averaged 1.40 points per drive. They had 6 games under 1.35 points per drive (the only successful games by this offensive standard were the Rams and Falcons games - maybe by any offensive standard).
In the last 8 games, no game was under 1.4 points per drive - every game in the second half of the season was better than the average game in the first half. That in itself seems to be a pretty significant change, an improvement we are all hoping that the Vikings build on in 2015.
For that second half of the season, the Vikes were a more normal 2.03 points per drive. (I don't particularly know why we had about 1.5 fewer drives per game in the last eight...) Anyway, this is a pretty normal performance, Vikings-wise. The Bears games were clearly disappointing. Their defense stunk last year. I give some credit to playing game 17 outdoors in the Minnesota winter, but still... The Lions game looks below average, but if they had made one of the three missed FG's, they would have won the game, and if they had made two, they would have been able to match their second half average points/drive.
Then I decided to compare to prior Vikings seasons (I listed the top passer, runner, and wide receiver for the year for reference):
The best years were clearly NFC Championship game years - 1998/2000/2009 - plus 2004. But look at how so many Vikings seasons end up right near the 2.0 points/drive average. Compare Bridgewater/Asiata/Johnson with Jeff George/Robert Smith/Randy Moss, or Culpepper/Michael Bennett/Randy Moss, or Ponder/MVP Peterson/Harvin. Considering the state of the offensive line in the last half of 2014, how did rookie Bridgewater, replacement-value Asiata, and practice squad-er Johnson manage to do so well?
* I totalled the number of drives - 4th downs missed, punts, turnovers, running and passing TD's, and FG attempts. To simplify points, I ignored conversions - 7 points per TD and 3 per made FG. Divide, and you get the points/drive. The only thing that really messes up this stat is if your defense and special teams are really great (and you get the ball in the opponent's territory all the time) or really bad (and you always start drives inside your own 20 for example).
I was rewatching one of the 2014 games, and they mentioned the Vikes were the worst (at that point in the season) in points per drive. That's a pretty interesting stat, and fairly easy to calculate. I also had done the same calculations for the historically good 2009 and 1998 offenses. (*methodology below). I was interested in looking at the Vikings offense in the first half of the season vs. the second half, and that led on to other things.
From the last 15 years, I came up with an average of 2.0 points per drive for the Vikings. That doesn't include special teams or defensive TD's of course. The Vikings have averaged 11 meaningful drives per game since 1998, so the offenses generally produce about 22 points per game on average.
This year's opponents:
Code: Select all
Opponent Drives Points Points/drive
Rams 10 27 2.70
Patriots 12 7 0.58
Saints 7 9 1.29
Falcons 11 40 3.64
Packers 13 10 0.77
Lions 12 3 0.25
Bills 12 16 1.33
Bucs 12 13 1.08
Redskins 11 28 2.55
Bears 9 13 1.44
Packers 9 20 2.22
Panthers 9 17 1.89
Jets 10 17 1.70
Lions 10 14 1.40
Dolphins 11 34 3.09
Bears 8 13 1.63
In the last 8 games, no game was under 1.4 points per drive - every game in the second half of the season was better than the average game in the first half. That in itself seems to be a pretty significant change, an improvement we are all hoping that the Vikings build on in 2015.
For that second half of the season, the Vikes were a more normal 2.03 points per drive. (I don't particularly know why we had about 1.5 fewer drives per game in the last eight...) Anyway, this is a pretty normal performance, Vikings-wise. The Bears games were clearly disappointing. Their defense stunk last year. I give some credit to playing game 17 outdoors in the Minnesota winter, but still... The Lions game looks below average, but if they had made one of the three missed FG's, they would have won the game, and if they had made two, they would have been able to match their second half average points/drive.
Then I decided to compare to prior Vikings seasons (I listed the top passer, runner, and wide receiver for the year for reference):
Code: Select all
2014 77 156 2.03 Bridgewater/Asiata/Johnson (second half season)
2013 187 365 1.95 Cassel/Peterson/Jennings
2012 171 343 2.01 Ponder/Peterson/Harvin
2011 180 332 1.84 Ponder/Peterson/Harvin
2010 177 261 1.47 Favre/Peterson/Harvin
2009 178 455 2.56 Favre/Peterson/Rice
2008 186 360 1.94 Frerotte/Peterson/Berrian
2007 185 298 1.61 Jackson/Peterson/Wade
2006 182 238 1.31 B. Johnson/C. Taylor/T. Taylor
2005 178 271 1.52 B. Johnson/M. Moore/T. Taylor
2004 151 383 2.54 Culpepper/O. Smith/Burleson
2003 171 383 2.24 Culpepper/Williams/Moss
2002 186 384 2.06 Culpepper/Bennett/Moss
2001 172 276 1.60 Culpepper/Bennett/Moss
2000 165 395 2.39 Culpepper/Smith/Moss
1999 181 372 2.06 George/Smith/Moss
1998 168 511 3.04 Cunningham/Smith/Moss
* I totalled the number of drives - 4th downs missed, punts, turnovers, running and passing TD's, and FG attempts. To simplify points, I ignored conversions - 7 points per TD and 3 per made FG. Divide, and you get the points/drive. The only thing that really messes up this stat is if your defense and special teams are really great (and you get the ball in the opponent's territory all the time) or really bad (and you always start drives inside your own 20 for example).
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
the last thing you want to do is what the jets and rex ryan did with a young mark sanchez. they took a promising young qb and built around him with high draft picks of defensive lineman and cbs. get the offense help up front to build a line to give him time, or get him an elite target that falls. another corner taken high in the draft does nothing for the future of the franchise.
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
Honestly, it doesn't look like they did. In 5 of those final 8 games they averaged under 2 points per drive and the offense scored 17 points or less per game. That's not very good. It's clear their average was boosted by a few strong offensive performances but on a week-to-week basis, they still struggled to score more often than not.John_Viveiros wrote:The best years were clearly NFC Championship game years - 1998/2000/2009 - plus 2004. But look at how so many Vikings seasons end up right near the 2.0 points/drive average. Compare Bridgewater/Asiata/Johnson with Jeff George/Robert Smith/Randy Moss, or Culpepper/Michael Bennett/Randy Moss, or Ponder/MVP Peterson/Harvin. Considering the state of the offensive line in the last half of 2014, how did rookie Bridgewater, replacement-value Asiata, and practice squad-er Johnson manage to do so well?
Nevertheless, the work you put into compiling those stats is appreciated. They're interesting!
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
This post seems so interesting, but it's a mess on my phone (that's not a complaint about your post, it's a complaint about me not having a computer for a while). I read it, and I appreciate the work that went into it, but I can't really analyze much with you.
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
The strange game is the panthers game. The offense essentially wasn't trying to put up points after the two blocked punts. At least, not to my recollection. When you're up by multiple touchdowns, you worry more about the clock than scoring TDs. Even so, it was right around average performance.Mothman wrote: Honestly, it doesn't look like they did. In 5 of those final 8 games they averaged under 2 points per drive and the offense scored 17 points or less per game. That's not very good. It's clear their average was boosted by a few strong offensive performances but on a week-to-week basis, they still struggled to score more often than not.
Nevertheless, the work you put into compiling those stats is appreciated. They're interesting!
As I rewatch the season, I'll have to pay attention to those bears games. They are the ones where the offensive performance was well under what one would expect from going against such a poor defense.
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
I haven't seen that game since it aired but I think they actually scored a TD one or two possessions after the second blocked punt so i wouldn't say they stopped trying to score after that, although I do take your point that once they were up big, they may have become more conservative. i;d have to watch again to see if that was actually the case or if the panthers adjusted and played much better on defense in the second half. Maybe it was a bit of both...John_Viveiros wrote:The strange game is the panthers game. The offense essentially wasn't trying to put up points after the two blocked punts. At least, not to my recollection. When you're up by multiple touchdowns, you worry more about the clock than scoring TDs. Even so, it was right around average performance.
Indeed, and they're also a big part of why I'm not as sold on Bridgewater or the oft-discussed improvement of the offense during the latter half of the season. Admittedly, the Bears games are important to me since for me, that's always been the Vikes rivalry that mattered most. However, I watched the first of those two games in person and from the stands, Bridgewater's performance, and that of the offense, was every bit as lackluster as some of the bad performances I'd seen from Ponder and the Vikes at Soldier Field. It was VERY discouraging and when they didn't perform much more effectively at the end of the season, when the Bears were in absolute disarray, that really frustrated me. Despite the loss @ Miami, the offense's performance in that game, and the state of the Bears, led me to think the Vikes would do much better against Chicago the second time around.As I rewatch the season, I'll have to pay attention to those bears games. They are the ones where the offensive performance was well under what one would expect from going against such a poor defense.
Anyway, I look forward to your take on those Bears games.
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
I'm sure with Peterson or whatever comes next, our offense would have been much more effective ...
That's actually what impressed the most with Zimmer's staff .. even after the injury bug feasted on the Vikings
seemed to play pretty well and guys stepped up, to fill roles.
That's actually what impressed the most with Zimmer's staff .. even after the injury bug feasted on the Vikings
seemed to play pretty well and guys stepped up, to fill roles.
no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
Someone usually does but I didn't feel that happened to a particularly impressive or extraordinary extent last year. I imagine Peterson's presence would have made a difference but unfortunately, his days with the Vikings may be done.jackal wrote:I'm sure with Peterson or whatever comes next, our offense would have been much more effective ...
That's actually what impressed the most with Zimmer's staff .. even after the injury bug feasted on the Vikings
seemed to play pretty well and guys stepped up, to fill roles.
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Re: Mark Craig: Defense grades well, Offense will need build
I would rather have a great offensive line than a great running back, and I think the line was the #1 problem last year. Teddy did a good job adapting, especially as a rookie, but it was all quick reads and get the ball out fast. A line that could run block and pass protect like a top 15 nfl team would make the offense look a LOT better.Mothman wrote: Someone usually does but I didn't feel that happened to a particularly impressive or extraordinary extent last year. I imagine Peterson's presence would have made a difference but unfortunately, his days with the Vikings may be done.
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