Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

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Raptorman
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Raptorman »

Purple Reign wrote: I think it was a good no call (and the op said the defender 'knicked' him, not kick him). Teddy definitely slid late and the defender had already committed and I thought the defender did a good job of avoiding a major hit even though he did launch himself. Now if he had hit Teddy hard, then I could see them throwing the flag, but that wasn't the case.
Good no call. However, if that was a Viking player doing it to Rodgers, it would have been 15 yards.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

John_Viveiros wrote: Yes the first interception was a turning point, but my point has always been "Whose mistake was the first interception?". The discussion seems to imply that it's 100% Teddy's fault. No mention of mitigating circumstances. No mention of the WR getting tripped.

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... e50e8618e9 -Charles Johnson says it was his fault.

Now, whether or not it was one guy or the other, I like the way Teddy didn't throw Johnson under the bus and blame Johnson. And I like how Johnson said it was a good throw, and he would have had it. Maybe even more so if it isn't true. It means the team - at least these two guys - have each other's backs in a way that petulant QB's (like Cutler?) wouldn't.
Ive said this at least 5 times, in deferent threads, but everyone still blames Teddy. The DB got away with a PI but tripping Johnson up, otherwise that's a going to be a Johnson reception. But lets blame Teddy's high ball.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Mothman »

John_Viveiros wrote:the first interception was a turning point, but my point has always been "Whose mistake was the first interception?". The discussion seems to imply that it's 100% Teddy's fault. No mention of mitigating circumstances. No mention of the WR getting tripped.
That's because when watching it in slow motion, it looks to me like the ball was overthrown high and behind the receiver. I don't think Johnson had a realistic chance to catch it even if hadn't stumbled. In fact, he's well-covered and the Lions defender covering him actually leaped to try and deflect the ball and had a shot at it. It's too bad he missed. He probably would have screwed up the INT. :)
Now, whether or not it was one guy or the other, I like the way Teddy didn't throw Johnson under the bus and blame Johnson. And I like how Johnson said it was a good throw, and he would have had it. Maybe even more so if it isn't true. It means the team - at least these two guys - have each other's backs in a way that petulant QB's (like Cutler?) wouldn't.
Excellent point. It's nice to see that they have each other's backs in that way.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:Ive said this at least 5 times, in deferent threads, but everyone still blames Teddy. The DB got away with a PI but tripping Johnson up, otherwise that's a going to be a Johnson reception. But lets blame Teddy's high ball.
I understand why people think otherwise because initially, it looked like there might have been a penalty committed on that play but there was no PI. Johnson just stumbled coming out of his break. I've watched it at least a dozen times now and the Lions defender didn't interfere with him. It was just a poorly thrown pass that got intercepted. Teddy tried to force it and paid the price.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Mothman »

DKSweets wrote:Excellent post, Kapp.
I agree!
J. Kapp 11 wrote:Love talking about this stuff
I love reading it. I obviously didn't quote the whole thing but that was a great, informative post. Thank you very much. I learned from that one!
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

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the fact we are 0-5 in the division is pretty alarming. as someone point out a few pages back, the majority of our wins came against teams we should have beat. stafford and rodgers aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Purple bruise »

I just finished re-watching the game and I am not sure that the defense got enough credit for keeping this game so close. On the road, against a high powered offense, they were terrific time and time again ( especially containing Megatron as well as they did).
Walsh missed a long field goal, it does not matter if it was inches away or yards away it was a miss and the other attempt was blocked (certainly not his fault). But let's cut his butt :?
The offensive line, especially Kalil, playing against the #1 rated defensive line, did a really good job for the most part. TB could/should have avoided one of the three sacks, but held onto the ball too long. The other two sacks he was creamed.
Now as far as TB and my assesment, he played one and a half quarters as good as almost anyone could. He did have some pinpoint accurate throws and had the team in a great rhythm. A few of his passes were thrown too high but Johnson and Rudolph were able to pull them in. The two interceptions, in my opinion, cost them the game more than any other aspect of the loss. They were both a bad throw (1) and a horrible throw (2).
The circus catch that Jennings made was off the chart and TB's throw there was pretty bad. Now getting down to crunch time and the clock running out with no timeouts, an ill-advised throw was made to the middle of the field gobbling up precious seconds and I could not understand that at all. Then came the attempted pass to Wright, who came wide open with plenty of sideline to run up and then out of bounds, but TB unfortunately threw one of his worst passes of the day and sailed way over his head. Not to pick on TB but he also "wasted" one precious timeout earlier in the second half which could/would have come in quite handy.
I can/will chalk this up to a young rookie's mistakes, but clearly as good as he played initially he played nearly that poorly for the rest of the game and this loss, more than any other player rests on his shoulders.
Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I do see TB making great strides this year and definately see some real potential with him.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Mothman wrote:
I see promise too but I don't like his on and off struggles with inaccuracy, the INTs, the tendency he has shown at times to rely too heavily on the check down and the occasional tendency to hold onto the ball too long in the pocket. From what I've seen, he's been at his best when defenses allow him to make a lot of throws underneath coverage and give receivers a chance to run after the catch. When he doesn't have those opportunities, I find him far less impressive.
I respect your overall post. However, you mention the INTs although when you look at it, would you be saying "the INTs" if he only had 5? Because thats what he would have if he didn't have 1 ball tipped at the line (vs. DET), 1 ball go through Asiata's hands (vs. Det), a hail mary at the end of the game (@ Chi), a hail mary before halftime (vs. NYJ), and have Charles Johnson get tripped up (@ Det)?? If you think about it, 5 out of his 10 INTs were bad throws. The other 5 were clearly not his fault or technically "bad throws".

As for the check downs, he was definitely doing this often in the beginning of the season. However, I think it's pretty clear he has strayed away from that much more as the season has gone on. His yardage has showed it as well as his overall play in general. He's starting to stretch the field a lot more and get the ball out to his WRs. This could have a lot to do with them opening this playbook more. He's averaging 8.5 YPA in his last 3 games vs. 6.3 YPA in his first 7 games. That's a pretty big difference.

Regarding Teddy holding the ball too long, I believe that has vastly improved. The coaches have continued to say this the past few weeks as well. His pocket presence is his best attribute IMO. His willingness to step into the pocket and get the ball out with zip is really starting to show. There might be a time or two that he holds onto it too long but at this point, I don't think it's enough to say so. It was pretty bad early in the year but now if he takes a sack, its more due to coverage. I haven't seen receivers streaking wide open and he isn't seeing the field. You can see him going through his progressions, looking off safeties, staying calm in the pocket, and releasing the ball much quicker and with velocity.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Demi »

mosscarter wrote:the fact we are 0-5 in the division is pretty alarming. as someone point out a few pages back, the majority of our wins came against teams we should have beat. stafford and rodgers aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
How often in recent history would a team with this talent, and these injuries, even win 50% of games against teams we "should have beat"? They're a bottom of the league team that's winning pretty much every game they should win, and staying competitive in games they have no business being competitive against.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by mosscarter »

yeah demi they sure were competitive the first game against green bay, the first game against detroit, and the first game against chicago. they were right in those games. barn burners. they got CRUSHED.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

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Demi wrote: How often in recent history would a team with this talent, and these injuries, even win 50% of games against teams we "should have beat"? They're a bottom of the league team that's winning pretty much every game they should win, and staying competitive in games they have no business being competitive against.
If anything, thats a good thing. I really can't wait for a fresh start next year. Getting Fusco and Phil back along with a legitimate LG (hopefully), a legit WR, Teddy with a full offseason under his belt, Rudolph at 100%, our issues at RB fixed (hopefully). At this stage, I only see this defense getting better. Especially under Zimmer.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

mosscarter wrote:yeah demi they sure were competitive the first game against green bay, the first game against detroit, and the first game against chicago. they were right in those games. barn burners. they got CRUSHED.
You're really going to consider the first GB game when Christian Ponder was starting?? They lost to Chicago by 8....that's not getting crushed. Regardless of what you want to critique, they are playing much better as of late and are finally starting to come together. It's not like we were expecting playoffs this year. Especially after losing a bunch of key players to injuries and suspensions.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

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Pondering Her Percy wrote:I respect your overall post. However, you mention the INTs although when you look at it, would you be saying "the INTs" if he only had 5?
Yes.

Look, I acknowledge that he's progressing and that's genuinely encouraging but there's basically nothing he could do over the remainder of this season that would convince me he is undoubtedly the long term answer at QB. I believe the development process has to play itself out.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by jackal »

I thought one pick was more situational and the other was more of the quality and choice to throw the ball
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by losperros »

Demi wrote:How often in recent history would a team with this talent, and these injuries, even win 50% of games against teams we "should have beat"? They're a bottom of the league team that's winning pretty much every game they should win, and staying competitive in games they have no business being competitive against.
I agree with your assessment. In some ways, the Vikings season has been run by an alarming amount of unfortunate intangibles. Yet week after week they usually still make a game out of it.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 15

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Mothman wrote: I agree!
I love reading it. I obviously didn't quote the whole thing but that was a great, informative post. Thank you very much. I learned from that one!
Thanks guys. Appreciate it. You never know how folks will react to posts like that.

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