The Wilfs

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mansquatch
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by mansquatch »

My thing on the Packers is this. Say you took all the analysis they did on Rogers and applied the same model to the next 50 QBs to come out of the draft. Do you really think you'll get the same results? The answer is obviously no.

In addition to that, as was stated, without Rogers they are pretty terrible. They are so dependent on him that even their defense plays at its best when it is up by 14 points or more. When they are in a close game or do not get turnovers they are very mediocre, even with AROG, see their playoff appearances from 2011 forward. When Rogers got hurt, they went into the toilet hard.

There is no denying that they are great when Rogers is playing. But I really find it hard to say their GM is a genius when beyond Rogers their draft record has been Clay Mathews and?

It could be worse, they or we could have the Bears GM.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Purpnation wrote:

Yea I did misread your post man, my bad.

You make very solid points, and that was a good post, I agree 100% an Elite QB covers up many deficiencies, I think that goes without saying, I have just heard alot of people discredit guys like Polian ( I know you were referring to Grigson) and Thompson as being products of an elite QB, when IMO they were/are very solid GMs.
No big deal I do the same thing a lot too :) Yeah I would never dismiss Polian. I think he's one of the best GM to ever step foot in the NFL.

As for Thompson, I would like to see how good he really is without someone named Favre or Rodgers. We saw a glimpse of it last year.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

mansquatch wrote:My thing on the Packers is this. Say you took all the analysis they did on Rogers and applied the same model to the next 50 QBs to come out of the draft. Do you really think you'll get the same results? The answer is obviously no.

In addition to that, as was stated, without Rogers they are pretty terrible. They are so dependent on him that even their defense plays at its best when it is up by 14 points or more. When they are in a close game or do not get turnovers they are very mediocre, even with AROG, see their playoff appearances from 2011 forward. When Rogers got hurt, they went into the toilet hard.

There is no denying that they are great when Rogers is playing. But I really find it hard to say their GM is a genius when beyond Rogers their draft record has been Clay Mathews and?

It could be worse, they or we could have the Bears GM.
Exactly what I am saying. I think the Colts would honestly be even worse than GB without Luck. But Grigson gets a lot of credit because he drafted Luck.....well, who wouldnt if they were in that position??? He fell on Grigson's lap because without Peyton Manning, his team was one of the most pitiful things I have ever seen.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

maembe wrote: If their so good, why haven't they been able to draft as well as our gm who deserves to be fired (referring to Thompson)?
It all boils down to Spielman "not finding" that elite QB yet. We don't know what we have in Teddy yet but that is a lot of what it is based on.

Someone answer me this....If we add a guy like Luck or Aaron Rodgers on this team and have the same defense we have right now, what do you think our record will be??? Will we be contenders?? I could just about guarantee it. And in turn, the firing of Spielman would never even be mentioned. Spielman has been able to actually build a good defense this year with help from Zimmer. That is something Grigson hasn't been able to do since being in Indy and being handed Andrew Luck 3 years ago and it's also something Thompson hasn't really been able to do for about 4 years now.

I'll admit, Thompson has the upper hand over Grigson but the crazy thing is....Ryan Grigson will ALWAYS look good because of Andrew Luck
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Mothman »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:It all boils down to Spielman "not finding" that elite QB yet. We don't know what we have in Teddy yet but that is a lot of what it is based on.
If by "It all boils down to Spielman "not finding" that elite QB yet" you're referring to the difference between winning and losing, being consistently competitive year after year, then yes, I think that's a big part of it, although I also think there are some other issues at play. They need to find stability at QB and on the coaching staff and I think they might have been able to be a more consistent winner by now even without an elite QB if they'd done a better job of building in other areas. Accountability and responsibility go hand in hand so it's hard to hold Spielman entirely accountable for some of the team-building issues we've seen since he was first hired, simply because for most of that span, he didn't have the full authority of a GM. Incredibly, it's only now, in his ninth year with the team, that he's a GM working with a coach he chose for the job. That's one reason this thread is right to point to the Wilfs. Their approach to management, and the learning curve they faced, has likely been part of the problem. Heck, Vikings football has been one learning curve after another for a long time now: learning curves for first time head coaches, for young QBs, for ownership, and so on. It seems likely that a period of extended stability in key positions would help, if they can just get the right people in those positions.
Someone answer me this....If we add a guy like Luck or Aaron Rodgers on this team and have the same defense we have right now, what do you think our record will be??? Will we be contenders??
Almost certainly, at least for the division.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Purpnation »

maembe wrote: If they're so good, why haven't they been able to draft as well as our gm who deserves to be fired (referring to Thompson)?
They have, that is why the only real weakness on that team is run D.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Purpnation »

mansquatch wrote:My thing on the Packers is this. Say you took all the analysis they did on Rogers and applied the same model to the next 50 QBs to come out of the draft. Do you really think you'll get the same results? The answer is obviously no.

In addition to that, as was stated, without Rogers they are pretty terrible. They are so dependent on him that even their defense plays at its best when it is up by 14 points or more. When they are in a close game or do not get turnovers they are very mediocre, even with AROG, see their playoff appearances from 2011 forward. When Rogers got hurt, they went into the toilet hard.

There is no denying that they are great when Rogers is playing. But I really find it hard to say their GM is a genius when beyond Rogers their draft record has been Clay Mathews and?

It could be worse, they or we could have the Bears GM.
It isn't fair to say they were awful without Rodgers, they're QBs were so bad last year it put us to shame. :lol: I still think winning the division and going 2-2-1 with Matt Flynn in an offense tailor made for a HOF talent is decent.

Anyways, I'm really not going to argue, as it probably won't change your mind, but that team was solid when they won the SB, which was before Rodgers reached his true potential, they"re current team also doesn't have many weaknesses and I think alot of that has to do with being patient with the young draft picks of theirs. I think 5 straight postseason appearances, 3 straight div titles, and a SB is impressive no matter who you got at QB.
Last edited by Purpnation on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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chicagopurple
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by chicagopurple »

considering that they only have 5 free agents on their team and that very other Packer was drafted, I would say that they drafted pretty well, especially since they perennially winning the division.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Purpnation »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: It all boils down to Spielman "not finding" that elite QB yet. We don't know what we have in Teddy yet but that is a lot of what it is based on.

Someone answer me this....If we add a guy like Luck or Aaron Rodgers on this team and have the same defense we have right now, what do you think our record will be??? Will we be contenders?? I could just about guarantee it. And in turn, the firing of Spielman would never even be mentioned. Spielman has been able to actually build a good defense this year with help from Zimmer. That is something Grigson hasn't been able to do since being in Indy and being handed Andrew Luck 3 years ago and it's also something Thompson hasn't really been able to do for about 4 years now.

I'll admit, Thompson has the upper hand over Grigson but the crazy thing is....Ryan Grigson will ALWAYS look good because of Andrew Luck

Thompson has a a rather solid D as of now, but yes, I believe Rodgers makes this team a contender, and with AP probably a SB contender.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by maembe »

chicagopurple wrote:considering that they only have 5 free agents on their team and that very other Packer was drafted, I would say that they drafted pretty well, especially since they perennially winning the division.
They win the division perennially solely because of Rodgers. The "talent" they've drafted was on display last year when Rodgers was out.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Purpnation »

maembe wrote: They win the division perennially solely because of Rodgers. The "talent" they've drafted was on display last year when Rodgers was out.
I have already stated, in this thread, several reasons why this is not the truth, and I would really rather not repeat myself. :thumbsup:

This comes up with almost every GM/Coach that has an elite QB, whether or not they are made simply by their QB.

EDIT: Sorry I thought the post you quoted was mine.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by Purple Reign »

maembe wrote: They win the division perennially solely because of Rodgers. The "talent" they've drafted was on display last year when Rodgers was out.
You can't really say that about last year as Rodgers was out 7 games and they still won the division.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by chicagopurple »

YUP......its hard to stomache, but after all these years of frustrating seasons, Its hard to deny that they are a really well run organization.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

There are quite a few teams that are always good, and quite a few that are bad, for past decade or so. A GM does more then just draft and pick or trade FAs. Personally, I don't think our GM is good at either. Pretty much average. I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors, and I think that's where the GM managing the entire team, comes into play. Some owners are more hands on (I think the Wilfs are finally figuring hands off may be the better approach). I just want an above average team, consistently, so one day we may in SB contention again. I want teams to fear us, not look forward to playing us. And I am tired of this 3 year cycle that we are in. And always settling for be mediocre. I think Zimmer has the right attitude. I wonder about his coaching staff.
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Re: The Wilfs

Post by joe h »

Personally, I have no time for mediocrity, it is boring, never anything to talk about, and already the season may as well be over. We may have a franchise qb, like flacco, but he will never be an elite qb that will carry this team. Coaching staff is mediocre at best, other than a slightly more aggressive defense, it is still the same too stubborn, underachieving, unprepared 2013 Viking team. If the Wilfs blow this team up tomorrow, we lose nothing. Ziggy himself could build a 5-11 team, and even if he cannot, 0-16 at least gives us something to talk about before the draft. I'm just sick of this bend don't break, middle of the road, play the 1-1 odds this team has been employing since Childress was sent packing.
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