Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

[Mothman]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 42301.html

Since the start of the preseason, Vikings coach Mike Zimmer has had to deal with his starting nose tackle getting shot, his special teams coordinator serving a suspension, his star running back being banished after a child abuse charge, a player getting cut for another arrest, the loss of three offensive starters, and injuries forcing him to start his third-string quarterback.

General Manager Rick Spielman, the man who hired Zimmer in January, is pleased with how Zimmer steered the Vikings through that choppy water and into the bye week with a respectable 4-5 record.

“We’ve dealt with a lot of adversity through the first part of the season,” Spielman said Tuesday. “To see his leadership and to see his team take his mental approach to the game, where there’s no excuses, there’s resiliency. You’re seeing this young team with a lot of young guys stepping up and growing.”

More at the link.

[chicagopurple]

I wanna see a pre & post season photo of our GM...I think its gonna look like the Presidential photos before and after holding office...greyed,wrinkling,and tired......

[losperros]

Head coaches can be praised or fired by GMs and ownership at the blink of an eye. That's how the NFL game works.

That said, I think Zimmer has been quite a positive guiding force for the Vikings. He's not done yet. I look forward to seeing this team grow.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Props to Spielman for not landing us in anywhere in this category

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... gent-flops


Also.....I wonder how some of these analysts on NFL.com even have jobs. Check out what Brandt lists as our top 3 needs!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... low-starts

.....Statistically, we have one of the best defensive lines in the NFL right now and I don't believe OT is our offensive line problem

My top 3 needs would be: LG, MLB, and SS. (WR and CB are possibilities too)

[fiestavike]

Props to Spielman for not landing us in anywhere in this category

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... gent-flops


Also.....I wonder how some of these analysts on NFL.com even have jobs. Check out what Brandt lists as our top 3 needs!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... low-starts

.....Statistically, we have one of the best defensive lines in the NFL right now and I don't believe OT is our offensive line problem

My top 3 needs would be: LG, MLB, and SS. (WR and CB are possibilities too)

The DL need is a bit curious, although we could use an upgrade to Robison, but its not essential. Other than that I don't think he's off base.

The teams 2 big weaknesses are pass protection and QB play. Each one is somewhat dependent on the other.
I think our only desperate needs are OT and OG. Beyond that, upgrades at DE, MLB, SS, WR, QB*, RB* could all be useful, but don't seem essential.

*I'm assuming Teddy and McKinnon continue to develop and these aren't major needs. We may also have the answer to other positions already on the roster. Blanton, Brinkley, Wootton, Peterson, Patterson? These guys might be able to fill those holes.

of course, its also possible that Kalil gets it together but that doesn't look good in my opinion. Loadholt and Charlie Johnson are what they are.

Personally I would say our areas of greatest need for upgraded performance other than QB is LT, LG, and RT.

[losperros]

of course, its also possible that Kalil gets it together but that doesn't look good in my opinion. Loadholt and Charlie Johnson are what they are.

Personally I would say our areas of greatest need for upgraded performance other than QB is LT, LG, and RT.

I think Loadholt may be getting a bit better with his pass protection. He seems to run block well.

I seriously wonder what Loadholt would be like if he still had Fusco next to him.

[fiestavike]

I think Loadholt may be getting a bit better with his pass protection. He seems to run block well.

I seriously wonder what Loadholt would be like if he still had Fusco next to him.

He's servicable and probably about average. He's always struggled a bit with speed rushes and pass protection. I don't think we have a 3rd desperate need other than QB once you get past LT and LG. Obviously we are trying to develop a QB so I doubt we address that position expecting to upgrade the starter in the next couple years! But I would put RT above the other positions I listed in order of prioritizing what positions to upgrade.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Loadholt has been one of the leagues best run blockers for a couple years now. He's average in pass protection. However, a RT that is very good in run blocking and average in pass blocking does not stick out as an immediate need on this team. Loadholt was rated PFF #2 RT last year and made their "All-PFF" team as the #1 RT. He was the only right tackle in the top 101 players in the NFL. He was 98 out of 101. PFF or not, he is one of the better RT's in this league right now. He does struggle at times against speed rushers but that's no reason to cut ties with him. Especially after knowing what he can bring to the table. Having Fusco next to him makes him that much better. That's why I want to see good LG next to Kalil. I'm still all for holding onto Kalil for his final year of his contract as long as we put a legitimate LG next to him.

I say #1 need right now no doubt is LG and #2 being MLB (I would like to see a playmaking MLB (Denzel Perryman) rather than Average Joe Brinkley)

From PFF:
The only right tackle to make the list, Loadholt would finish the year our second-ranked overall right tackle (behind Zach Strief, but with a much better run block grade). He’s become the prototype right tackle, more than good enough with his pass protection and able to generate substantial movement in the run game. Throw in getting penalized just three times and he’s delivered on his contract so far.

If Loadholt is being compared to other right tackles, there shouldn’t be any question that he’s elite. He’s already outperforming his contract and putting himself in a position to be one of the few right tackles that should get consideration for Pro Bowl voting. In the context of all tackles, there’s still work he needs to do in pass protection to truly be at the level of his best peers, but if he repeats his 2013 showing, he’s in the conversation.

^exactly why I think there is no way RT is one of our needs right now.

[fiestavike]

Loadholt has been one of the leagues best run blockers for a couple years now. He's average in pass protection. However, a RT that is very good in run blocking and average in pass blocking does not stick out as an immediate need on this team. Loadholt was rated PFF #2 RT last year and made their "All-PFF" team as the #1 RT. He was the only right tackle in the top 101 players in the NFL. He was 98 out of 101. PFF or not, he is one of the better RT's in this league right now. He does struggle at times against speed rushers but that's no reason to cut ties with him. Especially after knowing what he can bring to the table. Having Fusco next to him makes him that much better. That's why I want to see good LG next to Kalil. I'm still all for holding onto Kalil for his final year of his contract as long as we put a legitimate LG next to him.

I say #1 need right now no doubt is LG and #2 being MLB (I would like to see a playmaking MLB (Denzel Perryman) rather than Average Joe Brinkley)
^exactly why I think there is no way RT is one of our needs right now.

I don't put much stock in PFF, I would just say there is clearly room for improvement at RT and I think Loadholt has maxed out. As I said, I don't view this team as having any desperate needs other than LT, LG, and improved QB play.

I will say, its hard to justify prioritizing a MLB when he will only be on the field 30-40% of defensive snaps while a OT or a SS or a #1 WR would be on the field around 100% of their units respective snaps.

[Mothman]

I don't put much stock in PFF, I would just say there is clearly room for improvement at RT and I think Loadholt has maxed out. As I said, I don't view this team as having any desperate needs other than LT, LG, and improved QB play.

Regarding PFF: I'm increasingly discouraged by the degree to which their grades are used in the media and wi ever more widely accepted by fans. An awful lot of sportswriters seem to have simply accepted them as an accurate source or at least a source worth quoting, and more and more fans follow suit. At this point, I think they're having a tremendous influence on the perception of players and, and influence I don't think their methodology supports.

I think this article is a must-read for anyone considering PFF's stats:

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/0 ... ly-trusted

Here's a great excerpt:

The Dangers In The PFF Method
Last August, Bill Belichick talked about the dangers of watching film and making conclusions based on it.

"It might even look to us like somebody made a mistake but then we look at it more closely maybe somebody besides him made a mistake and he was trying to compensate. I think we need a little closer analysis a lot of times. Sometimes the play calls or what was called on the line of scrimmage might be something that we’re not aware of. That could happen in any game. You think a player did something that he shouldn’t have done but maybe he got a call, a line call or a call from a linebacker or he thought the quarterback said something so he did what he thought was the right thing or maybe it was the right thing but that call shouldn’t have been made or should have been on the other side. But yeah, I think we need to be careful about what we’re evaluating."

So sometimes even the team itself doesn’t know exactly where things broke down and who did what wrong. Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

"But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?"

Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play?

This is a must-read too:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/1/714 ... handshakes

[Cliff]

PFF are the best stats available. The NFL *could* publish their own stats in this regard and take some of the 'guessing' out of it. Until then, people are going to use the best product available and right now that's PFF.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I don't put much stock in PFF, I would just say there is clearly room for improvement at RT and I think Loadholt has maxed out. As I said, I don't view this team as having any desperate needs other than LT, LG, and improved QB play.

I will say, its hard to justify prioritizing a MLB when he will only be on the field 30-40% of defensive snaps while a OT or a SS or a #1 WR would be on the field around 100% of their units respective snaps.

I understand what you're saying but the gap between PFF and what's actually happening on the field is NOT that big. PFF by no means is some big time source for information. However, if Loadholt was "not good" or "below average", i doubt he would even be in consideration for there number 1-2 RT. Bottom line is, most everything out there
right now is saying he's a solid RT to have. His run blocking is superior which is now widely known. Many articles state it and I have noticed it in his play. His pass blocking is about average right now. As I said, a RT with superior run blocking and average pass blocking doesn't strike me as a need.

I know you have said, it's an area that could be improved. How though? Find a RT that's above average in pass blocking but is average to below average in the run game??? Offensive tackles that are good at both don't just fall off trees. Point is, for us to find a guy that is as good as Phil in the run game and is better in the pass game, is extremely slim. As the articles state, he is one of the better RTs in this league no matter what way you look at it.

As for MLB, I think it depends on what kind of MLB you draft. If it's an unathletic thumper like Brinkley, then yes they won't be on the field a whole lot. However, if it's a guy like Perryman that a thumper, is rangy and can cover, you might see him on the field a lot more. Remember, Zimmer has always said he puts players in spots that fit them the best. If our MLB is better in coverage and "rangier" (not a word) than a guy like Greenway or maybe even Hodges, then my guess is he would stay out there. It all depends on who you draft.

[fiestavike]

I understand what you're saying but the gap between PFF and what's actually happening on the field is NOT that big. PFF by no means is some big time source for information. However, if Loadholt was "not good" or "below average", i doubt he would even be in consideration for there number 1-2 RT. Bottom line is, most everything out there
right now is saying he's a solid RT to have. His run blocking is superior which is now widely known. Many articles state it and I have noticed it in his play. His pass blocking is about average right now. As I said, a RT with superior run blocking and average pass blocking doesn't strike me as a need.

I know you have said, it's an area that could be improved. How though? Find a RT that's above average in pass blocking but is average to below average in the run game??? Offensive tackles that are good at both don't just fall off trees. Point is, for us to find a guy that is as good as Phil in the run game and is better in the pass game, is extremely slim. As the articles state, he is one of the better RTs in this league no matter what way you look at it.

I would and have described Loadholt as average and serviceable, not as "below average" or "not good". If they can't find an upgrade to a better player they should certainly stick with Phil. He has his good attributes and bad attributes. I would say the same for every player on the team though. If they can find a RT who is better, it would be a legitimate position to try to upgrade, because the speed with which Kalil and Loadholt are often beat in pass protection hampers our whole offense and the development of our young QB.

As for MLB, I think it depends on what kind of MLB you draft. If it's an unathletic thumper like Brinkley, then yes they won't be on the field a whole lot. However, if it's a guy like Perryman that a thumper, is rangy and can cover, you might see him on the field a lot more. Remember, Zimmer has always said he puts players in spots that fit them the best. If our MLB is better in coverage and "rangier" (not a word) than a guy like Greenway or maybe even Hodges, then my guess is he would stay out there. It all depends on who you draft.

That's a very fair point. I'm excited about the pair of Hodges and Barr in the Nickel for years to come, but there is no guarantee that Hodges will pan out or that we couldn't find a upgrade over him even if he does pan out. Nickel LB doesn't strike me as a huge need going forward, and I think Brinkley is serviceable at MLB in a base defense, so to me the position isn't a priority, but I do admit you make a good point.

Its really exciting to me that we are to the point where our debates on this board aren't about which position group we are most in need of (we need CornerbackS! we need Wide ReceiverS!) but more about individuals. With the exception of the left side of our line (At least at their current performance level) we are just talking about upgrading serviceable players at various positions and debating which upgrade would be most valuable. That tells me that our roster has come LONG way from the Post Favre debacle.

And even better, some of the positions we are looking for upgrades from are manned by young guys like Robert Blanton, Teddy Bridgewater, Matt Kalil, Jerrick McKinnon, Cordarelle Patterson, who could improve to be the longterm solution at their respective positions. Of course they won't all pan out, I see the Vikings, with this very young roster, as a super promising group of players on the whole.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I would and have described Loadholt as average and serviceable, not as "below average" or "not good". If they can't find an upgrade to a better player they should certainly stick with Phil. He has his good attributes and bad attributes. I would say the same for every player on the team though. If they can find a RT who is better, it would be a legitimate position to try to upgrade, because the speed with which Kalil and Loadholt are often beat in pass protection hampers our whole offense and the development of our young QB.
That's a very fair point. I'm excited about the pair of Hodges and Barr in the Nickel for years to come, but there is no guarantee that Hodges will pan out or that we couldn't find a upgrade over him even if he does pan out. Nickel LB doesn't strike me as a huge need going forward, and I think Brinkley is serviceable at MLB in a base defense, so to me the position isn't a priority, but I do admit you make a good point.

Its really exciting to me that we are to the point where our debates on this board aren't about which position group we are most in need of (we need CornerbackS! we need Wide ReceiverS!) but more about individuals. With the exception of the left side of our line (At least at their current performance level) we are just talking about upgrading serviceable players at various positions and debating which upgrade would be most valuable. That tells me that our roster has come LONG way from the Post Favre debacle.

And even better, some of the positions we are looking for upgrades from are manned by young guys like Robert Blanton, Teddy Bridgewater, Matt Kalil, Jerrick McKinnon, Cordarelle Patterson, who could improve to be the longterm solution at their respective positions. Of course they won't all pan out, I see the Vikings, with this very young roster, as a super promising group of players on the whole.

I respect your opinion. It is exciting to see us just talking about individuals and upgrading here and there rather than naming half the positions on our roster. Are we looking for an upgrade at QB though? I sure hope not Maybe some better play out of him but I really like the strides he is already making.

If you look at our draft class this year, we currently have one of the most successful draft classes in the NFL this year. The winningest rookie QB, a rookie RB that leads all rookie RBs in yardage, a LB that is in contention for DROY and guys like Stephen and Price that sprinkle in as good depth. So far, it was a very good draft by Spielman this year and I think the title of this thread fits well. I'm excited to see Spielman work with Zimmer in the future. The way he likes to move around in drafts and with Zimmer assisting him along the way, I have a feeling we're going to see some good young players (which we already have) rolling through here soon.

[fiestavike]

Regarding PFF: I'm increasingly discouraged by the degree to which their grades are used in the media and wi ever more widely accepted by fans. An awful lot of sportswriters seem to have simply accepted them as an accurate source or at least a source worth quoting, and more and more fans follow suit. At this point, I think they're having a tremendous influence on the perception of players and, and influence I don't think their methodology supports.

I think this article is a must-read for anyone considering PFF's stats:

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/0 ... ly-trusted

Here's a great excerpt:
This is a must-read too:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/1/714 ... handshakes

Pretty good stuff. There was a play against Washington that I thought fell into this category. Their first TD run, Rhonde Barber highlighted Chad Greenway as being at fault and "having to make that play". Its possible, but watching the play it appeared that Greenway was playing with inside leverage and expecting the CB to close in. Marcus Sherels was in at CB due to Rhodes being out after the collision with Harrison and DeSean Jackson. Sherels jumped a WR screen, doubling the WR and leaving nobody to close in on the RB outside of Greenway. Brian Robison was held on the play...if he was supposed to have outside contain he wasn't able to do it.

In either case it appeared to be a mental error by Greenway or Sherels and not a physical breakdown. Not knowing more than we can tell from the film, its impossible to attribute the blame on that play with any certainty IMO.