Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

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maembe
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by maembe »

fiestavike wrote:How different is PFF from something like QB rating? I know QB rating is more objective since it is strictly statistical and eliminates the judgement of someone who has no idea what roles and responsibilities a given player was supposed to fill. But neither "grade" really captures the performance. They are both just lazy shorthand ways to analyze a player's performance, and too much weight shouldn't be given to these kinds of measures.
PFF grade would be a much better metric that Quarterback Rating. Rating is an overly simplistic stat that ignores a ton of factors, and not just subjective ones. PFF takes into account a lot of variables that basic stats ignore. It's not perfect, but it is without question the best source available. It's not even really debatable.
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by Purple bruise »

If only the Vikes would have kept Allen, paid him and not resigned Griffin :wink: http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/V ... 6715e016d8
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Mothman
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by Mothman »

maembe wrote: PFF grade would be a much better metric that Quarterback Rating. Rating is an overly simplistic stat that ignores a ton of factors, and not just subjective ones. PFF takes into account a lot of variables that basic stats ignore. It's not perfect, but it is without question the best source available. It's not even really debatable.
It's debatable. Their specific grading criteria isn't even clear so how can we possibly consider their grading reliable, much less superior? What is clear is that it's highly subjective. What PFF does is more akin to ESPN's QBR than to the NFL's passer rating statistic and at least with ESPN's stat, there appear to be former NFL QBs involved in the process as opposed to dedicated amateurs.
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Highly subjective. Proof here.

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He graded well playing the run (+17.3), in coverage (+2.0), and even rushing the passer (+0.3), also managing to go the entire season without being penalized as he turned in one of the best performances from a 4-3 outside linebacker in the entire league.
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote: I understand your point. They're filling a niche that was clearly there to be filled and there's obviously an audience for what they're doing. From a business point of view, it's brilliant. However, I wouldn't describe what PFF provides as the best stats available. The stats provided by the league or even the adjusted stats provided by a site like Football Outsiders seem better to me. I'd describe what PFF provides as the most convenient stats available. PFF fills a statistical void with nice, neat, numerical "grades" and amateur analysis but it's based on a system of evaluation that's not transparent, is obviously highly subjective and is derived from broadcast footage that doesn't even show the whole field. The only qualifications necessary to become an analyst for PFF seem to be a love of pro football and a willingness to sit, watch every play and give it your grade. No actual experience playing or coaching the game is required and yet these guys are having an ever-increasing influence on the way players are perceived.

It obviously bugs me. :)
I think what they provide isn't stats in the traditional tangible definition, what they provide is analysis. Given the opaqueness of sports in general, anything short of having a coach sit down and dissect every play is going to result in a good amount of speculation and variance.

To me PFF is similar to an investment newsletter. Both are using analysis to speculate on what happened (or will happen in the case of investments) based on a combination of traditional metrics and ones self-created to differentiate yourself from the pack. I think PFF gets a lot of attention because they provide a significant amount of detail compared to others and their methodology, while unavoidably flawed, is better than most. I wouldn't take it as dogma but I think the media latches onto it because there's not much better out there and to some degree, it's an easy pass to let someone else do the critical thinking.
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by Mothman »

S197 wrote:I think what they provide isn't stats in the traditional tangible definition, what they provide is analysis. Given the opaqueness of sports in general, anything short of having a coach sit down and dissect every play is going to result in a good amount of speculation and variance.

To me PFF is similar to an investment newsletter. Both are using analysis to speculate on what happened (or will happen in the case of investments) based on a combination of traditional metrics and ones self-created to differentiate yourself from the pack. I think PFF gets a lot of attention because they provide a significant amount of detail compared to others and their methodology, while unavoidably flawed, is better than most. I wouldn't take it as dogma but I think the media latches onto it because there's not much better out there and to some degree, it's an easy pass to let someone else do the critical thinking.
That's exactly why they do it and it's exactly why I'm critical of them for doing it. :)
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by Laserman »

Who needs PFF to grade Loadholt in Pass protection? He gets beat so many times it's sad. Seems like every important 3rd down in passing situations he gets beat aweful. But hey, that's just my observation
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Do they get paid at PFF to do their "analysis"?
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Re: Vikings' GM Spielman sees a righted ship

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

PurpleMustReign wrote:Do they get paid at PFF to do their "analysis"?
Looks like the answer is "no." Well, somebody gets paid, but apparently it isn't the rank-and-file analyst. Just an elect few.

Here's what they say on their own site when advertising for an analyst "position."
At ProFootballFocus.com, we work with NFL teams, players, agents, and media, providing them with the totally unique data gathered by our team and the information about every player that is derived from it. It’s the desire to break new ground and be involved that motivates us, not the money we may make out of this going forward.

Therefore, the role below should be seen first and foremost as voluntary. If you love football and want to be involved with a group of people whose paramount objective is to drive knowledge of the NFL to new levels and have fun doing it, then you certainly should apply. If you are simply interested in earning some extra cash, I think you’ll find you won’t fit in.

That said, we are expanding and, as time goes on, we’ll likely be looking to recruit people for more full-time paid roles. Team members who start off as unpaid volunteers and do a great job put themselves in fantastic position as we grow.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/get-involved/

Feel free to form your own opinions. I have mine.
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