Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

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Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by dead_poet »

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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Cliff »

Thanks for the read. I think the defense did great sans the last drive. Hopefully the fan-base will go easy on them for 'losing' the game.

Blaming a defensive unit that got 6 sacks and forced 4 turnovers would be akin to blaming the offense for a loss after putting up 40 points. I'm trilled with how the defense is learning under their first year in a new system.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Purple bruise »

Cliff wrote:Thanks for the read. I think the defense did great sans the last drive. Hopefully the fan-base will go easy on them for 'losing' the game.

Blaming a defensive unit that got 6 sacks and forced 4 turnovers would be akin to blaming the offense for a loss after putting up 40 points. I'm trilled with how the defense is learning under their first year in a new system.
I totally agree. A few more key players and another year with this new system and this D will rock :thumbsup:
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by 808vikingsfan »

Purple bruise wrote: I totally agree. A few more key players and another year with this new system and this D will rock :thumbsup:
Getting healthy, adding a couple of OL, and a year of experience under Bridgewater's belt and the offense may be good too. Having a bunch of 2nd stringers get valuable playing time this year is not going to hurt either.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by losperros »

Glad to see these supportive posts. As I said in another thread, I'm really enjoying the maturation of the current defense.

Seriously, folks, I think this D will prove to be a dominating one in the not too distant future.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Mothman »

losperros wrote:Glad to see these supportive posts. As I said in another thread, I'm really enjoying the maturation of the current defense.

Seriously, folks, I think this D will prove to be a dominating one in the not too distant future.
They definitely have a chance to become that kind of unit and it would really be refreshing to see that happen. They're playing much better overall than the 2013 defense. That said, the article opens with this:
Safety Harrison Smith was adamant that a last-second defeat doesn't make this year's Minnesota Vikings defense anything like the 2013 unit that did so five times in 10 losses.

"You might as well be comparing us to any other team in the league," Smith said.

The Vikings have a new coach, new defensive scheme and plenty of new pieces, but the eerily similar result still prompted the questions about being able to finish in the fourth quarter.
In response to that I say, "as well it should". The 6 sacks and 4 turnovers are indicative of progress. The all-too familiar late-game collapse illustrates how far they still have to go. Rhodes played a good game but did his best Chris Cook imitation near the end, getting into position to break up the deep throw down the sidelines and then proving unable to make the play. Greenway played a very good game but couldn't cover the TE on 4th and 20. The defense still needs to figure out how to get off the field in long yardage situations and how to close out games. I'll be glad when they take that step because if anything, it's almost more frustrating to see them make progress in so many ways and still collapse in the final minute or fail to force a punt on third and long.

The Strib has a good read about the latter problem today:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 65392.html
The Vikings had them right where they wanted them.

A stop would get their defense off the field, and after the Vikings got them backpedaling on earlier downs, their opponents had a long ways to go to convert for a first down.

Wait, which game are we talking about here?

The one in New Orleans? The victory over Atlanta? Or Sunday’s last-second loss in Buffalo?

Well, it could have referred to any of those games. And the loss to New England, too. But in this instance, the one in question is the most recent one — the 17-16 loss to the Bills, the one that still had the Vikings shaking their heads 24 hours later.

Buffalo’s two long-distance conversions, including their game-saving completion on Fourth-and-Forever, on the game’s final drive are the most glaring instances of the Vikings not finding a way to finish a defensive stand and get off the field in a pivotal spot. And in the aftermath of the spectacular come-from-ahead loss, those struggles have put the spotlight on a trend that has carried on throughout the 2014 season.

Thirty-three times the Vikings have put their opponents in the unfavorable position of needing to pick up 10 or more yards on third or fourth down to move the chains. And on exactly one third of those plays, their opponents converted and kept a drive alive, many of those drives ended with scores.

“That’s kind of been the Achilles’ heel,” Zimmer said.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by jackal »

The defense was solid right up to the end but in their defense I don't think they are responsible for the loss...

The three biggest factors are IMO

1. Are crappy O line and especially Charlie Johnson, who can't finish plays ,and is out there falling down
in the second quarter.. clumsy lazy fat boy

2. Bridge water did throw on pick(that was his own fault and his biggest weakness is waiting too long
for throw..

3. Patterson needs to learn to pick his time to run out of the end zone and our special teams need
to block better ...
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Mothman »

jackal wrote:The defense was solid right up to the end but in their defense I don't think they are responsible for the loss...

The three biggest factors are IMO

1. Are crappy O line and especially Charlie Johnson, who can't finish plays ,and is out there falling down
in the second quarter.. clumsy lazy fat boy

2. Bridge water did throw on pick(that was his own fault and his biggest weakness is waiting too long
for throw..

3. Patterson needs to learn to pick his time to run out of the end zone and our special teams need
to block better ...
I agree that the defense can't be held entirely responsible for the loss but I have to quibble with your list of the 3 biggest factors in the loss. If we're talking about the biggest factors, I see no way around the fact that the defense allowed Buffalo to drive 80 yards for the winning TD, use up virtually all of the time remaining on the clock and even convert a 4th and 20 on the drive. That drive was easily one of the biggest factors in the loss.

It's a 60 minute game. The defense didn't play a solid 60. They got closer than the offense though... :(
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

Mothman wrote:
Thirty-three times the Vikings have put their opponents in the unfavorable position of needing to pick up 10 or more yards on third or fourth down to move the chains. And on exactly one third of those plays, their opponents converted and kept a drive alive, many of those drives ended with scores.
A.K.A. Minnesota chokes again.

To belabor the last play again: Minnesota, on that last play, knew that Sammy Watkins was going to get the ball. Yet, they leave Rhodes all alone, with zero safety help? It is on Rhodes to play better press-coverage, but schematically, that was garbage.

It doesn't matter who is the coach, it is the same thing over, and over, and over again. I knew that 4th and 20 was going to be converted. I called it to my buddy. I knew we were going to give up the last second touchdown. I called that to my buddy as well. I wasn't wrong. Until this situation occurs again and again and again and we until we have success, I don't see any reason to think/feel any different. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Well, let's just say Minnesota's defense in crucial moments in games fits that definition to a T.

But whatever, that game is over. It is on to Tampa Bay. We have the challenge of playing defense against Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans, and Austin Jenkins. It's on the road as well. We haven't won in Tampa since... 1997 when it wasn't even Raymond James Stadium. Honestly, nothing on this schedule gets any easier. This team hasn't shown the ability to respond to adversity yet. They better start this week.

Label me whatever you would like, but I am sick and tired of it. This team wasn't supposed to be this bad. I never thought they were going to be an upper echelon team, but this is pathetic. At least the defense has improved during the game. They need to learn how to finish a game still.

Regardless of how upset I am, I can see positives on this team. I know that Teddy Bridgewater will turn it around. I see that Anthony Barr and Harrison Smith are all-pro level players. Everson Griffen will be our next great edge-rusher. Josh Robinson has turned it around. Xavier Rhodes was rough this past week, but overall, he has been everything a first round pick can be in two seasons. Linval Joseph looks like a great signing.

/rant
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Mothman »

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:To belabor the last play again: Minnesota, on that last play, knew that Sammy Watkins was going to get the ball. Yet, they leave Rhodes all alone, with zero safety help? It is on Rhodes to play better press-coverage, but schematically, that was garbage.
Ouch. "Garbage" is pretty harsh. Schematically speaking, what they did seems sound to me. Look at the defensive set, pre-snap. As the KFAN article points out, Rhodes had potential help from Smith inside. He needed to protect the outside. He couldn't let Watkins get around him to that side and he did. If he had directed him inside, Smith could have helped and maybe the Vikes would have turned the Bills away.
It doesn't matter who is the coach, it is the same thing over, and over, and over again.
That's due in no small part to the fact that coaches don't play. The players have to execute. I get mocked for saying that but it's true.
Label me whatever you would like, but I am sick and tired of it. This team wasn't supposed to be this bad.
I think that depended entirely on who you asked. :) Nationally, most were predicting them to be one of the weaker teams in the league. I think the Vegas over/under on Vikings wins this year was 6.5. A win next week would put the Vikes on pace for 6. Those #@*% oddsmakers know what they're doing.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by Orion »

It was another heartbreaking loss (per vikings standard) I don't even want to talk about it. I'm a TA for physics (undergrad) and the grad TA is conveniently a huge Packers fan, but he went easy on me today.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by John Bonnes »

That is some great content. It's almost too much to digest in one sitting.

My favorite was #2 - I could watch Anthony Barr decleat that running back 100 times. I may have already. It never gets old. My gawd, it was like a man versus a boy. (Leaving to watch it again.)
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by dead_poet »

Updated original post to include the offense
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by jackal »

I agree that the defense can't be held entirely responsible for the loss but I have to quibble with your list of the 3 biggest factors in the loss. If we're talking about the biggest factors, I see no way around the fact that the defense allowed Buffalo to drive 80 yards for the winning TD, use up virtually all of the time remaining on the clock and even convert a 4th and 20 on the drive. That drive was easily one of the biggest factors in the loss.

It's a 60 minute game. The defense didn't play a solid 60. They got closer than the offense though... :(
I agree with most of what you said ...

I am giving the defense a little benefit of the doubt, though. This is a new scheme the team is leaning ( they should get better)
We were on the road against a underrated team IMO. Our offense produced very little and didn't eat up a lot of time, so they
could rest.
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Re: Film observations of Vikings: Week 7 vs. Bills

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:To belabor the last play again: Minnesota, on that last play, knew that Sammy Watkins was going to get the ball. Yet, they leave Rhodes all alone, with zero safety help? It is on Rhodes to play better press-coverage, but schematically, that was garbage.
I definitely understand the frustration. I've been so unhappy that this is the first I've posted since the loss. But that last play was not the fault of the coaches.

Rhodes HAD safety help, but it was to the inside. I mean, you can't just plant a safety at the sideline. The corner has a job to do, and Rhodes didn't do it. He simply could not let Watkins have the sideline, and he did. If he had forced Watkins inside, Smith was there to help.

It's a shame because Rhodes played a good game until the last two plays.
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