Relax

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Dirtyswabby
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Relax

Post by Dirtyswabby »

I too have my moments of pessimism. I took a deep breath last night and started to think about the vikings, we have alot going for us right now, Our Defense is much improved, with essentially the same players last year, minus a few additions I.E. Captain, Joseph. This shows me they have better coaching.

Offense can be tricky especially when you have rookies, Mckinnon, Bridgewater. Its much more difficult to get the offense going when you have rookies in key positions, The Vikings lost AD at the beginning of the year, which didn't help Teddy at all.

Yesterday our WR we having issues getting separation, it certainly didn't help Teddy. We have to try and see the positives, this year is probably a wash, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see a much more competitive team next year.

I know its easy to get emotional about a loss like yesterdays, but the new coaching staff isn't miracle workers and its going to take time to build a contender. Everyone just relax.
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Mothman
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Re: Relax

Post by Mothman »

Is that you, Aaron Rodgers? ;)
Dirtyswabby
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Re: Relax

Post by Dirtyswabby »

Mothman wrote:Is that you, Aaron Rodgers? ;)

:rofl:

No But in years past I was never able to see the upside with the vikings, The huge turnaround on Defense has really showed me a lot about Zimmer, you cannot pick one player and say he is the reason for the Turnaround, this is coaching.
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Re: Relax

Post by fiestavike »

Dirtyswabby wrote:
:rofl:

No But in years past I was never able to see the upside with the vikings, The huge turnaround on Defense has really showed me a lot about Zimmer, you cannot pick one player and say he is the reason for the Turnaround, this is coaching.
Because the outcome was familiar, people see "same old vikings" with regard to our game yesterday, but it wasn't really at all. Vikings teams of yore have simply allowed wide open, uncontested completions on first, 2nd, 3rd, and occasionally 4th down. During some of our historically bad years the the opposing WR could catch, turn and step before a defender *might* finally close in on him and force him to make a decision.

this is not the same vikings defense. The long conversions hurt but we are playing people a lot tougher and are becoming a good football team. All be it with room for improvement and development.
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Mothman
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Re: Relax

Post by Mothman »

Dirtyswabby wrote: :rofl:

No But in years past I was never able to see the upside with the vikings, The huge turnaround on Defense has really showed me a lot about Zimmer, you cannot pick one player and say he is the reason for the Turnaround, this is coaching.
That's certainly one potential takeaway and I think coaching has something to do with it but it seems clear that personnel changes and a natural progression of growth from some of the younger players has something to do with it as well. I agree that you can't just point to one player on defense and say that player is the reason for the improvement we've seen but there's no need to point to just one player when there are quite a few new faces on defense and some of them have been big contributors. Barr and Brinkley are two of the team's top 3 tacklers and neither was on the roster a year ago. Tom Johnson is second on the team in sacks, with 4, and he's a new addition as well. Joseph has been a difference-maker up front. Some young players who were on the roster last year are making bigger contributions as starters (most notably Griffen and Blanton). I think it's a pretty different defense in more than one way.

Meanwhile, although the defense has taken a step in the right direction, the offense has taken a big step backward and that's due to a mix of coaching and personnel issues as well.

I was able to see the Vikings upside before and I can still see it now. :) I agree with you that it's going to take time to build a contender. I've been saying that for years now and there are inevitably going to be setbacks along the way. I just hope they're actually on the road to building a contender. It's too early to tell.
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Re: Relax

Post by fiestavike »

Mothman wrote: That's certainly one potential takeaway and I think coaching has something to do with it but it seems clear that personnel changes and a natural progression of growth from some of the younger players has something to do with it as well. I agree that you can't just point to one player on defense and say that player is the reason for the improvement we've seen but there's no need to point to just one player when there are quite a few new faces on defense and some of them have been big contributors. Barr and Brinkley are two of the team's top 3 tacklers and neither was on the roster a year ago. Tom Johnson is second on the team in sacks, with 4, and he's a new addition as well. Joseph has been a difference-maker up front. Some young players who were on the roster last year are making bigger contributions as starters (most notably Griffen and Blanton). I think it's a pretty different defense in more than one way.

Meanwhile, although the defense has taken a step in the right direction, the offense has taken a big step backward and that's due to a mix of coaching and personnel issues as well.

I was able to see the Vikings upside before and I can still see it now. :) I agree with you that it's going to take time to build a contender. I've been saying that for years now and there are inevitably going to be setbacks along the way. I just hope they're actually on the road to building a contender. It's too early to tell.
I'd just add that building a contender doesn't necessarily mean 5-11 to 7-9 to 9-7 to contender. In my opinion some of the steps involved in building that contender are happening now, and may have started 2 years ago. This is the reason teams "come out of nowhere". Of course they haven't come out of nowhere but the production and success appears to come out of nowhere if we judge only by result. We have a bad record, but we are building a good football team in my opinion.

Also, I'm not sure how big a step the offense has taken backward. Its clearly struggling for a variety of reasons but I think that's in part because we are trying to establish an offense that is based on sustainable, physically imposing, fundamental football. Sometimes that involves taking a step backward in order to get over the hump. I think we have personnel shortcomings at some key positions that will be tough to overcome, but its better to stay the course than panic and start trying to implement a system that might yield better results next week or for the next 9 weeks, but doesn't move us any closer to being able to get over the hump.
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Re: Relax

Post by losperros »

fiestavike wrote:This is not the same vikings defense. The long conversions hurt but we are playing people a lot tougher and are becoming a good football team. All be it with room for improvement and development.
I agree. I think this defense is building and learning, and I see the gradual progress. Actually, I'm excited about what Zimmer can do with another draft/free agency for the D.

In fact, the only unit that has me really concerned is the OL. I'm amazed at how poorly they pass protect.
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Re: Relax

Post by Purple Reign »

Dirtyswabby wrote:We have to try and see the positives, this year is probably a wash, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see a much more competitive team next year.
I assume that you meant this year is a 'wash out', otherwise I would say you are still pretty optimistic since a 'wash' typically would mean an 8-8 record. :wink:
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Re: Relax

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fiestavike wrote:I'd just add that building a contender doesn't necessarily mean 5-11 to 7-9 to 9-7 to contender. In my opinion some of the steps involved in building that contender are happening now, and may have started 2 years ago. This is the reason teams "come out of nowhere". Of course they haven't come out of nowhere but the production and success appears to come out of nowhere if we judge only by result. We have a bad record, but we are building a good football team in my opinion.
Excellent point! I definitely agree that progress isn't necessarily seen as straight-line, incremental improvement in a team's record.
Also, I'm not sure how big a step the offense has taken backward. Its clearly struggling for a variety of reasons but I think that's in part because we are trying to establish an offense that is based on sustainable, physically imposing, fundamental football. Sometimes that involves taking a step backward in order to get over the hump. I think we have personnel shortcomings at some key positions that will be tough to overcome, but its better to stay the course than panic and start trying to implement a system that might yield better results next week or for the next 9 weeks, but doesn't move us any closer to being able to get over the hump.
Haven't they essentially been putting the pieces in place to run an offense based on sustainable, physically imposing, fundamental football for years now? At times, they've even fielded an offense that does that. I think learning a new scheme may partially explain the step back they've taken in terms of offensive production and losing Peterson explains a lot of it, but I think Turner is going to have to make some strategic adjustments to get more out of his personnel, especially because we don't know if Peterson is ever going to play another down for the Vikings. Modifying their approach shouldn't require panic or a system change, just adaptability.
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Re: Relax

Post by chicagopurple »

I am OK with the development of our D. I really worry about the progression of our Offensive because having an AWEFUL OL may do some real damage to the development of Bridgewater. We seem to have a potentially great QB but throwing him in a train wreck every week serves no good purpose. I feel like we need some career journeyman to be out there right now taking the hopeless punishment until we can offer areal OL.
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Re: Relax

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chicagopurple wrote:I am OK with the development of our D. I really worry about the progression of our Offensive because having an AWEFUL OL may do some real damage to the development of Bridgewater. We seem to have a potentially great QB but throwing him in a train wreck every week serves no good purpose. I feel like we need some career journeyman to be out there right now taking the hopeless punishment until we can offer areal OL.
I am having flashbacks to 2011/12 when Ponder was getting absolutely crushed and our WRs gained no separation whatsoever. I think it's PTSD from that season...causing facial tics and projectiles being flung at the TV.
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Re: Relax

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losperros wrote: I agree. I think this defense is building and learning, and I see the gradual progress. Actually, I'm excited about what Zimmer can do with another draft/free agency for the D.

In fact, the only unit that has me really concerned is the OL. I'm amazed at how poorly they pass protect.
That's my take as well, I think the defense is well on track to be what Zimmer had in Cinci. No it's not there yet, it might need more talent before it GETS to that point, but the weekly improvement I'm seeing is really encouraging and it's exciting to see so many YOUNG guys being big contributors as it means they should only get better as they gain experience and get use to the system.

Agreed about the O-line too, I really wouldn't be surprised or upset if our #1 pick was a guy who could play both right or left tackle and either push Kalil or Loadholt into shaping up or replacing them. A big center who won't get pushed around so easily by guys like Suh in our division would help too and obviously the guard position is pretty weak.
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Re: Relax

Post by losperros »

mondry wrote:That's my take as well, I think the defense is well on track to be what Zimmer had in Cinci. No it's not there yet, it might need more talent before it GETS to that point, but the weekly improvement I'm seeing is really encouraging and it's exciting to see so many YOUNG guys being big contributors as it means they should only get better as they gain experience and get use to the system.
Yes, I'm with you on that.

Regarding the defense getting better, I thought Sharif Floyd did a heck of a job against the Bills. He provided a lot of penetration into the Bills offensive backfield and was creating havoc the entire time he was in the game. Some want to give up on Floyd, who was only a rookie last year. I see the guy as a potential playmaker at DT.
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Re: Relax

Post by mondry »

losperros wrote:
Yes, I'm with you on that.

Regarding the defense getting better, I thought Sharif Floyd did a heck of a job against the Bills. He provided a lot of penetration into the Bills offensive backfield and was creating havoc the entire time he was in the game. Some want to give up on Floyd, who was only a rookie last year. I see the guy as a potential playmaker at DT.
Well like so many young players Floyd needs time, to learn the position and also to physically mature. Besides, anyone willing to right a guy off after a rookie year where he mostly had spot duty backing up kevin williams isn't anyone I'm going to take advice from! When you see flashes like this though it's very promising, I thought the whole D line has been playing a lot better and more in sync as a unit.
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Re: Relax

Post by fiestavike »

Certainly was Floyd's best game as a pro. It was pretty encouraging to see after inconsistency earlier this year! Hopefully he can put a few of those together. Could be another feather in old "Ricky's" cap!
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