Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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DK Sweets
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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I think it might be a bit unfair. Outside of McKinnon and Griffen, Hodges looks to be a nice pickup. I think Shamar Stephen will turn into a nice pick. Asiata was undrafted, and there's no way of knowing AP would be gone so soon. Jarius Wright, Fusco, Sullivan, Rhett Ellison, Brian Robison, Josh Robinson, even guys like Audie Cole and Robert Blanton are nice picks (although some are starting, they are nice depth choices from where they were selected). Marcus Sherels has been great on punt returns and has grown every year. We might not be the best, but I think we're at least league average.
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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DKSweets wrote:I think it might be a bit unfair. Outside of McKinnon and Griffen, Hodges looks to be a nice pickup. I think Shamar Stephen will turn into a nice pick. Asiata was undrafted, and there's no way of knowing AP would be gone so soon. Jarius Wright, Fusco, Sullivan, Rhett Ellison, Brian Robison, Josh Robinson, even guys like Audie Cole and Robert Blanton are nice picks (although some are starting, they are nice depth choices from where they were selected). Marcus Sherels has been great on punt returns and has grown every year. We might not be the best, but I think we're at least league average.
Sherels has been great on punt returns? Im just happy if the guy doesn't fumble it. Half of the other guys aren't playing good. And what depth? Fusco is out, and no one has stepped up. And Blanton? Really?

I know we have a lot of injuries this year, and then AD does his child abuse scene. That's hard to overcome. But we really didn't even have good starters, let alone backups.
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Demi wrote: Not hard to do considering his incompetence his previous two stops, and the current state of this team huh?
I'm saying first round picks get reps. Whether or not they're good. Nothing more than that. We can't judge a draft class after one or two years just because the players are starters. There have been plenty of terrible players in the league that started for a few years based on little more than where they were drafted. And the idea the future is bright for anyone based on a handful of games seems a bit crazy. I'm not ready to say any of the players listed have a dark future, but plenty of people are already saying their future is bright...based on a handful of games.
Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying that. It definitely takes a few seasons to really get a feel for how a draft pick will ultimately work out.
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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DKSweets wrote:I think it might be a bit unfair. Outside of McKinnon and Griffen, Hodges looks to be a nice pickup. I think Shamar Stephen will turn into a nice pick. Asiata was undrafted, and there's no way of knowing AP would be gone so soon. Jarius Wright, Fusco, Sullivan, Rhett Ellison, Brian Robison, Josh Robinson, even guys like Audie Cole and Robert Blanton are nice picks (although some are starting, they are nice depth choices from where they were selected). Marcus Sherels has been great on punt returns and has grown every year. We might not be the best, but I think we're at least league average.
Maybe bit league average isn't good enough unless league average is the team's goal.

I realize there are some successes, some promising late round picks, etc. I'm not saying the team has no depth. What I'm really asking are questions like: Is enough foresight being shown? Are they building logically enough? Is there sufficient dedication to not only getting the best 53 man roster they can put together for the present each year but also the best roster for their future? Are they taking some risks that simply aren't worth taking?

Asiata is actually a great example. It doesn't matter if they knew Peterson would be gone soon or would miss the year due to an off-the-field issue. They have to be prepared for it. Injuries happen. They knew Gerhart, Peterson's primary backup, would either need a new contract or would move on in free agency. They never seemed to have any intent to sign him so was developing Asiata over the past few years the best way to prepare for a situation in which he might have to be "next man up"? I like Asiata as a role-player so I'm not trying to knock him but if you've got Adrian Peterson starting and running the ball is likely going to remain a significant aspect of your offense, maybe it's a good idea to develop a back with a different skill set than Asiata's to become the primary backup. Maybe they wanted to and just never found someone they liked better. Admittedly, that's possible.

I'm not trying to rip them apart here. I just wonder if the little things are part of the problem, part of what's holding this team back. We spend a lot of time on the big moves and the marquee players but good roster management from top to bottom is one of the things that can help set a champion apart from an also-ran.

I know it's easy to sit here and second guess but I think these are questions worth asking.
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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PurpleKoolaid wrote:But we really didn't even have good starters, let alone backups.
Am I reading this right?? We "don't really have any good starters"?? :roll:
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Am I reading this right?? We "don't really have any good starters"?? :roll:
Yeah! Harrison Smith is a good starter! :smilevike:
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Demi wrote: Yeah! Harrison Smith is a good starter! :smilevike:

But we somehow have a top 15 defense right now after playing offenses like ATL, NO, GB, DET, and NE. The ignorance behind these posts is quite pathetic and not even worth arguing
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: But we somehow have a top 15 defense right now after playing offenses like ATL, NO, GB, DET, and NE. The ignorance behind these posts is quite pathetic and not even worth arguing
This board is notorious for this. A bunch of armchair beer-swillin fans critiquing professional general managers ... kinda like those relatives at Thanksgiving who have a few drinks and are suddenly experts on what the U.S. government needs to do in the Middle East ... very very long on opinion and very very short on having a single clue what the hell it is they are ranting about.

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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Mothman wrote: Maybe bit league average isn't good enough unless league average is the team's goal.

I realize there are some successes, some promising late round picks, etc. I'm not saying the team has no depth. What I'm really asking are questions like: Is enough foresight being shown? Are they building logically enough? Is there sufficient dedication to not only getting the best 53 man roster they can put together for the present each year but also the best roster for their future? Are they taking some risks that simply aren't worth taking?

Asiata is actually a great example. It doesn't matter if they knew Peterson would be gone soon or would miss the year due to an off-the-field issue. They have to be prepared for it. Injuries happen. They knew Gerhart, Peterson's primary backup, would either need a new contract or would move on in free agency. They never seemed to have any intent to sign him so was developing Asiata over the past few years the best way to prepare for a situation in which he might have to be "next man up"? I like Asiata as a role-player so I'm not trying to knock him but if you've got Adrian Peterson starting and running the ball is likely going to remain a significant aspect of your offense, maybe it's a good idea to develop a back with a different skill set than Asiata's to become the primary backup. Maybe they wanted to and just never found someone they liked better. Admittedly, that's possible.

I'm not trying to rip them apart here. I just wonder if the little things are part of the problem, part of what's holding this team back. We spend a lot of time on the big moves and the marquee players but good roster management from top to bottom is one of the things that can help set a champion apart from an also-ran.

I know it's easy to sit here and second guess but I think these are questions worth asking.
League average isn't the goal, but we're not talking about the entire draft. Rudolph, Smith, Rhodes, Barr already look like nice early picks. Kalil, Floyd, and Teddy still have plenty of time to work things out. Overall, I would say our drafts have been above average. What we really need is a QB who can cover some weaknesses, so it all depends on how Teddy works out.

And as for the Asiata point, I lump McKinnon in there with him. Both players provide something AD did not, so I think a plan was in place, we just didn't have as much time to implement it as we had hoped.

It's possible that some of theses players won't develop, but I have more faith in our roster top-to-bottom than it sounds like most people do.
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Leafman wrote:This board is notorious for this. A bunch of armchair beer-swillin fans critiquing professional general managers ... kinda like those relatives at Thanksgiving who have a few drinks and are suddenly experts on what the U.S. government needs to do in the Middle East ... very very long on opinion and very very short on having a single clue what the hell it is they are ranting about.

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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Leafman wrote: This board is notorious for this. A bunch of armchair beer-swillin fans critiquing professional general managers ... kinda like those relatives at Thanksgiving who have a few drinks and are suddenly experts on what the U.S. government needs to do in the Middle East ... very very long on opinion and very very short on having a single clue what the hell it is they are ranting about.

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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Leafman wrote: This board is notorious for this. A bunch of armchair beer-swillin fans critiquing professional general managers ... kinda like those relatives at Thanksgiving who have a few drinks and are suddenly experts on what the U.S. government needs to do in the Middle East ... very very long on opinion and very very short on having a single clue what the hell it is they are ranting about.

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:lol: This post couldn't be more accurate
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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Leafman wrote: This board is notorious for this. A bunch of armchair beer-swillin fans critiquing professional general managers ... kinda like those relatives at Thanksgiving who have a few drinks and are suddenly experts on what the U.S. government needs to do in the Middle East ... very very long on opinion and very very short on having a single clue what the hell it is they are ranting about.

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And you're calling out other people on having a single clue. :confused:
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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DKSweets wrote:League average isn't the goal, but we're not talking about the entire draft. Rudolph, Smith, Rhodes, Barr already look like nice early picks. Kalil, Floyd, and Teddy still have plenty of time to work things out. Overall, I would say our drafts have been above average. What we really need is a QB who can cover some weaknesses, so it all depends on how Teddy works out.
That's actually kind of the opposite of the point i'm trying to make so I'm obviously not doing a very good job of making it. :)

I know the thread is focused on Spielman's draft record but I was trying to go beyond that a bit into some of the other aspects of roster management, team-building, etc. I'm talking more about the causes of team weaknesses and how to minimize those shortcomings, not about covering them up.
And as for the Asiata point, I lump McKinnon in there with him. Both players provide something AD did not, so I think a plan was in place, we just didn't have as much time to implement it as we had hoped.
I'm questioning that plan. That's part of the point. They had time. Asiata's been with the team a few years. Gerhart's contract status was known. They knew, at the very least, that once Gerhart was gone another RB was going to be one Peterson injury or personal issue away from starting. Was Asiata the best choice to invest their time in developing as Peterson's backup? I'm just asking the question. Maybe the answer is yes. However, to me, the situation is reminiscent of what they did at QB from 2010 through last year. They knew Favre would be gone but there was nobody on the roster but Webb after 2010. They knew Ponder was a roll of the dice in 2011 but McNabb was a very short-term bridge at best and there was no real backup plan developed if Ponder didn't work out. They had Webb and MBT, two long, LONG shots to ever become decent NFL starters.

I'm just asking: are they thinking enough steps ahead at each position? Are they settling for backups or trying to load their roster with future starters to the greatest degree possible? Are they taking too many risks they don't need to take and is that part of what's holding them back? I'm not trying to be judge and jury but I think these kind of choices influence which teams end up with deep rosters and make deep playoff runs and which ones get mired in mediocrity (or worse). So, I'm asking the questions... :)
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Re: Rick Spielman's Draft Record

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I'm just asking: are they thinking enough steps ahead at each position?
Which should be a concern after the recent drafts...we lost certain positions, and spend our picks/offseason replacing them. How are we ever going to get ahead enough to compete when we are busy filling holes year by year instead of finding ways to address the upcoming needs ahead of time? Look at the Packers with their QB position, Indy, and heck even the Patriots now drafting a couple guys the last two years to try and be ready when Brady finally moves on for whatever reason.
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