2014 NFL Draft Discussion Thread - Round 1

[Delaqure]

Man I turned off the TV too soon! I missed the Bridgewater pick. Doh! I am very happy with this pick. Bridgewater has been my 1st choice all along. Everything I saw and read just pointed to the fact that he is a quality kid. Not just a great qb but a good kid as well with a lot of football smarts.

I am not so sure about Barr but if Zimmer liked him and wanted him I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. Zimmer has not proven himself to untrustworthy so I'm hopeful. With Barrs speed he ought to he able to cover anyone. We'll see if he can learn the proper techniques. I'm excited!

[mondry]

Okay, let's talk about good decisions. Sure, I see the difference between drafting a player at #22 and at #9 but that's not the only difference to consider. The draft shouldn't simply be about drafting the highest-ranked player on your board. Ultimately, it's a team-building process so addressing what your team needs has to be a consideration so, with a limited number of picks, the choice has to be about making the best move in terms of building a team that can win and sustain winning.

I understand the points you made but not all positions on a football team are equal and they shouldn't all be given the same weight. Quarterback is the most important position on a football team, is it not? It's the position that correlates most with winning and losing. That deserves a little extra weight, especially for a team that's been trying to find their "solution" at that position for a long, long time. If a team needs a future starter at the position like the Vikings did, it has to be a significant consideration. Furthermore, if you like a QB enough to spend a first round pick and the cost of another pick (in trade) on him, that better mean you truly believe he can become a quality starter for your team for years to come. If not, why are you paying that price?

So, logically, if QB is the most important position in football, if your team needs a QB and if there's a QB on your board you believe can fill that need and ultimately excel for your team for years, why screw around and risk not getting that player when he was right there for the taking?

Don't get me wrong here. I actually preferred Bridgewater to Manziel and I'm not upset with how this worked out at all. I'm enthused about the Barr pick and I'm enthused about the Bridgewater pick. I just think it's foolish to screw around with the most important position in football like that and to pass on a player you feel has "the right stuff" with the hope that you can trade up and get him later. Sometimes someone else offers a better deal in trade. Sometimes you can't make the trade to get your guy. You can't count on trades so unless you end up overpaying in trade (another draft day sin, correct?) you can only count on one pick per round. That means the players you had ranked at #10, #22 and all the picks in-between will likely be gone before you pick again. It means the first round is your window to get the one player you wanted in that round and if you want to be assured of getting him, you have to take him when your pick comes up. The Vikings must have felt Barr was that guy but IF reports that the Vikings tried to trade up to get Manziel are true, they missed out on the QB they considered the best bet to solve their long term QB issues.

Put simply, if you believe the solution to your team's biggest problem is sitting there, why not take him? Wouldn't that be a good decision?

It's all water under the bridge now. Fortunately, the Vikes were able to pull off a trade to get Bridgewater and hopefully, that will turn out to be a great move. Hopefully, drafting Barr will too. I think they both have great potential.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your stance more in depth. Basically if it's a QB you weigh that position so heavily that you don't mind taking an inferior prospect and paying the opportunity cost, regardless of what your draft board says.

Unfortunately, QB talent just didn't match up with the talent in the rest of this draft. If there's a Luck, Manning, or even "just" a Marino and you can say without a doubt, this guy is a top QB prospect not just this year, but in MOST years then sure, you take that guy at #8. I liked Manziel and I like Bridgewater but it's pretty clear they weren't on that level, they're the best available in this draft at the QB position but that only means so much. To me getting a talented young LB was also a major need for this team and there were two very talented guys that fit the bill of top 10 picks in Mack and Barr. Sure Mosley is probably a slightly better version of Manti Te'o but certainly not worth a top 10 pick so if we wanted that LB (which we clearly did) you had to spend #8 on them. (happened to be #9 thanks to the browns!)

Mack and Barr weren't going to make it to our second round pick so if you take Manziel or Teddy #8(9) just because they are QB's and you're forcing it, then we'd have to yet again take an inferior player at LB with our #40 pick and it starts a snowball effect of reaching at every pick to get what we need. (drafting for NEED based on preconceived notions of what's important rather than focusing on getting the best football player available is how you end up with high picks over and over and a crappy team.) Because of the talent in this draft, Watkins, and Evans, and all the lineman, Mack, Clowney, etc, a really good player made it to us at #8(9) and we pounced on him but it also pushes the Bridgewater and Manziels down further as well.

Maybe they thought TB or JM could solve their QB issue, but maybe they didn't think that much higher about them when they picked Barr #9 over guys like Carr, Garappolo, Mettenburger, McCarron, Murray like they likely thought Barr was over the rest of the LB's. Once 32 came up and TB was still there, then okay it was worth a 4th rounder to move up and grab him rather than wait for #40 to see who was still there. We know they tried to get into #22, that's it. Two other names that could be possibilities at that point were Dennard and Bucannon. We also know our offer wasn't good enough to beat the browns offer so they didn't think it was THAT important to win that pick or any other pick after until they found a good deal at #32.

I think we actually got the 2 BPA with both picks and that's huge.

They asked Charley Casserly what he thought about Bortles at #3 and he roughly said "well he's not the best player at #3, or the 3rd best prospect, this is a need pick and they're hoping he'll solve their QB problems" and it's understandable if you're Jacksonville just not what I'd do and I'm glad Spielman didn't think that way either. The best TEAMS win the superbowl, not the best QB's. If all things are equal prospect wise I 100% agree take the QB, but that wasn't the case, this was a bad year to say "fix QB no matter what at #8".

[Mothman]

Thanks for taking the time to explain your stance more in depth. Basically if it's a QB you weigh that position so heavily that you don't mind taking an inferior prospect and paying the opportunity cost, regardless of what your draft board says.

Within reason anyway...

Unfortunately, QB talent just didn't match up with the talent in the rest of this draft. If there's a Luck, Manning, or even "just" a Marino and you can say without a doubt, this guy is a top QB prospect not just this year, but in MOST years then sure, you take that guy at #8. I liked Manziel and I like Bridgewater but it's pretty clear they weren't on that level, they're the best available in this draft at the QB position but that only means so much.

My point is that once you've invested a first round pick in one of them, it means a lot, doesn't it? If the QB is worth the price at #22, he'd better be worth it at #9 and if he's not, why bother? I'm saying it doesn't matter if he is a Manning or Luck type of prospect (you wouldn't get a player like that at #9 anyway). There's simply no point in investing a first round pick in a quarterback if the team doesn't believe he has a legitimate chance to succeed.

Mack and Barr weren't going to make it to our second round pick so if you take Manziel or Teddy #8(9) just because they are QB's and you're forcing it, then we'd have to yet again take an inferior player at LB with our #40 pick and it starts a snowball effect of reaching at every pick to get what we need.

No, you just don't reach for a linebacker in round 2.

The effect you're talking about is the same regardless of position. By taking the best LB on their board at #9, if the trade rumors are accurate, they then missed on the QB they wanted and had to "settle" for Bridgewater.

Drafting for NEED based on preconceived notions of what's important rather than focusing on getting the best football player available is how you end up with high picks over and over and a crappy team.

That makes nice rhetoric but that's all it is... you end up being a crappy team by drafting crappy football players. Passing on one good football player and selecting another can still be a win.

They asked Charley Casserly what he thought about Bortles at #3 and he roughly said "well he's not the best player at #3, or the 3rd best prospect, this is a need pick and they're hoping he'll solve their QB problems" and it's understandable if you're Jacksonville just not what I'd do and I'm glad Spielman didn't think that way either. The best TEAMS win the superbowl, not the best QB's. If all things are equal prospect wise I 100% agree take the QB, but that wasn't the case, this was a bad year to say "fix QB no matter what at #8".

Please understand that's not what I'm saying. You know I'm a believer that the best teams win Super Bowls, not the best QBs. I'm not saying they should have had a "fix the QB at #8 no matter what" mentality. I'm saying IF they felt Manziel was the player who could "fix' their QB issues (and I just heard an NFLN report that he was very much in the discussion for the Vikes at #9) and IF they actually were trying to trade into the eagles spot to pick him then logically, they should have chosen that fix for their QB position at #9 when they had the opportunity. To me, IF a team feels that position needs fixing and if they feel they've identified the player who can fix it, the logically, they should go get that player.

I don't want to make any more of this because it's starting to sound like I'm being overly critical and in the end, I'm very happy with the picks they made.

[PurpleHalo]

Don't we have 2 3rds for harvin?

We have our 3rd, and Seattles 3rd. With that I want a Guard and a LB. I don't believe Barr projects as a LB in a 4-3, I see him as a LDE.

[PurpleKoolaid]

A few guards? We only need 1 to play LG. We have solid depth outside of that.

Was supposed to be a few DBs and a G. I was still too excited to type after we got Teddy. Decent guy, and even better QB.

[dkoby]

We have quite a wait for the next pick but some of the guys that I'd like to see:

Martavis Bryant WR
Chris Borland ILB
David Yankey or Cyril Richardson G
Pierre Desir CB

They may all be gone by the time the 3rd rolls around but you never know.

If we somehow get Borland in the 3rd, I'll travel to Minny and personally shine First Round Ricky's shoes myself. Im betting he goes in the top half of the second round

[mondry]

My point is that once you've invested a first round pick in one of them, it means a lot, doesn't it? If the QB is worth the price at #22, he'd better be worth it at #9 and if he's not, why bother? I'm saying it doesn't matter if he is a Manning or Luck type of prospect (you wouldn't get a player like that at #9 anyway). There's simply no point in investing a first round pick in a quarterback if the team doesn't believe he has a legitimate chance to succeed.

I think the problem is it's not all black and white and it's not that simple to find a great QB to draft. I'm sure they liked Ponder a lot and for all intents and purposes they did what you're suggesting right now. They found a guy they THOUGHT could be the man and took Ponder at #12 despite Ponder not even being close to the 12th best prospect in the draft. It was a disaster for the most part and that's what CAN happen with your mentality of "as long as you think the player can be the guy, throw everything else out the window and get him!" (within reason of course!)

I'm not trying to mock you or anything, I understand that you're taking a view on this that is a little outside the box and you believe getting the right GUY is what matters, not necessarily where you take them. If Ponder had gone on to be a hall of famer no one would have cared we took him at #12 and I completely agree. But I think where we tend to split up is the likeliness of a lower tier prospect like Ponder actually becoming a hall of famer type guy, no matter what spielmans gut thinks about him, the data and everything else just wasn't there.

I stand by it to this day that if we were patient and waited on Ponder's prospect value to get closer to his actual draft value (somewhere in the 2nd round) and took someone like Fairley at #12 (who was available) and traded back into #32 or wherever to take Ponder, we'd be much better off than doing what we did and gobbling up Ponder at #12 even though they thought for sure he was the guy. And if someone else took him over us, you just have to live with that because nothing is a sure thing and in this case they would have been doing us a huge favor taking Ponder over us. Maybe the browns did us a huge favor this time! Time will tell on that one of course. If Manziel goes on to be an 8 time superbowl champ and superbowl MVP 8 years in a row then of course we'll feel crappy about it but even the browns who loved the guy let him slide to #22 so it is what it is.

All in all the draft is like "the game of thrones" you do what you can, you make your moves, play your hand the best you can and hope you catch a break and maybe another GM helps you get where you want (trade back with browns) or they might stab you in the back. (browns jump ahead of us!) Maybe you want a guy and a GM jumps in front of you but instead of an elite QB it's a landmine they fall on for you. I prefer a GM who plays the risk + reward X draft pick value divided by prospect talent level = MCsquared equation! lol!

I don't want to make any more of this because it's starting to sound like I'm being overly critical and in the end, I'm very happy with the picks they made.

Hey don't worry about it, if we all agreed on the same exact things and didn't want to argue our own opinions it'd get pretty stale / boring around here!

I should also say that I liked this amount of "aggression" and "risk" we took to get Bridgewater. We didn't take him at #8(9), we let his perceived value match up with the risk and spent a 4th rounder to go ahead and move up and take our guy who may or may not have been 1B to Manziel's 1A. To me that is the right amount of aggression and "expense" compared to the risk that I like.

[Mothman]

All in all the draft is like "the game of thrones" you do what you can, you make your moves, play your hand the best you can and hope you catch a break and maybe another GM helps you get where you want (trade back with browns) or they might stab you in the back. (browns jump ahead of us!) Maybe you want a guy and a GM jumps in front of you but instead of an elite QB it's a landmine they fall on for you. I prefer a GM who plays the risk + reward X draft pick value divided by prospect talent level = MCsquared equation! lol!

LOL! Well, hopefully, the Browns did fall in a landmine for us. I'd hate to think the stole our pot o' gold.

Hey don't worry about it, if we all agreed on the same exact things and didn't want to argue our own opinions it'd get pretty stale / boring around here!

It would indeed.

[mansquatch]

Moth, I would argue that part of the draft calculus is making an educated guess on what the other Clubs are going to do. It isn't just a case of how one club values the prospects, but also an analysis on how you think the OTHER clubs value the prospects. More over, how you play these differences if you are a GM is a huge part of the job. The media and fans treat the smoke and mirrors with disdain, but we are not getting paid millions of dollars to draft. It isn't just enough to get hte right guy, it is also to get the right guy AND pay less for him. Salary cap ramification, draft value, all of it.

I think Spielman, overall, has done a great job on this stuff.

I'm very happy with how this draft turned out yesterday. I was firmly in the camp of thinking "Gee it would be great if we could get Bridgewtaer, but it will never happen." Add to that getting an athlete on defense of Barr's caliber. What is not to like?

[Mothman]

Moth, I would argue that part of the draft calculus is making an educated guess on what the other Clubs are going to do. It isn't just a case of how one club values the prospects, but also an analysis on how you think the OTHER clubs value the prospects. More over, how you play these differences if you are a GM is a huge part of the job. The media and fans treat the smoke and mirrors with disdain, but we are not getting paid millions of dollars to draft. It isn't just enough to get hte right guy, it is also to get the right guy AND pay less for him. Salary cap ramification, draft value, all of it.

I think Spielman, overall, has done a great job on this stuff.

I'm very happy with how this draft turned out yesterday. I was firmly in the camp of thinking "Gee it would be great if we could get Bridgewtaer, but it will never happen." Add to that getting an athlete on defense of Barr's caliber. What is not to like?

Nothing. I'm thrilled with how it turned out.

[AP_AD28]

Im happy with the Bridgewater pick. Im a little concerned with him playing in the cold weather and snow with those gloves, but if it works for him then dont change it. I just think its a perfect situation for him. He has the chance to sit for a full year and learn not only from Cassel but from Ponder as well, which could actually be a great benefit to Bridgewater coming from a former first round QB that didnt get the job done.

Another reason this is the perfect situation is that while holding the clipboard this year, he could add some bulk to his frame. Im not saying hes injury prone, since he missed no time in college, but taking shots in college vs the NFL arent the same.

[Angels Wings]

Am I the only one that prefers the NFL Network coverage of the draft over ESPN?

[frosted]

Jump to page six for angry lynch mob guaranteeing failure for Anthony Barr.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Jump to page six for angry lynch mob guaranteeing failure for Anthony Barr.

: I know I wasn't part of that. Guys wanted Gilbert or Manziel?? Yikes. I've never seen a team blow 2 first round picks like the Browns did. At least hit on one!!

[maembe]

Jump to page six for angry lynch mob guaranteeing failure for Anthony Barr.

I hope they sell low-fat crow or this place is going to start looking like Wisconsin pretty soon.