Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

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LB Mack or QB with #8?

LB Khalil Mack
29
71%
QB (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel)
10
24%
Other
2
5%
 
Total votes: 41

Slick Rick
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by Slick Rick »

KSViking wrote:I agree with you a bit. I think the pivotal spots for Mack are Atlanta and TB, or someone trading up to get him. Both for-mentioned teams would love to have a guy like Mack on their roster, but they both also have some other needs that could be filled by Blue Chip prospects. WR and OT in TB, OT in Atlanta. My honest feelings is that the ONLY player that is guaranteed to not be there by 8 is Clowney. Everyone else I believe could be in play, I just think there is no way that 7 other teams would feel Clowney doesn't have enough potential to take a shot at him. Everyone else, there are so many opinions and so many positions of need, and who knows.. Trades will almost definitely occur within the top 10 this year.
I think you're right about Clowney, but I'd add Greg Robinson to that list of guys who I think are virtually guaranteed to be gone at #8. It isn't often you see a 6'6, 330 lb OT that can run the 40 in 4.8 seconds. Usually those guys are gone inside the top 5, and I'd be absolutely shocked if he made it past Atlanta at the very latest. I think it's very likely that he's gone at #2 to either St. Louis or a team that trades up to take him.

Other than that, I think Matthews, Mack and Watkins ideally round out your top 5, but ideal kind of goes out the window when 3 of the top 5 picks desperately need a franchise QB. I could actually even see the Vikings coaxing Buffalo into a trade and swiping an extra pick and still getting Mack at #9 assuming he's still on the clock at #8. Maybe something like our 1st for their 1st and 3rd or something.
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by Mothman »

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:According to Judd Zulgad of ESPN 1500, the Minnesota Vikings would be making a big mistake if they drafted a quarterback early in the draft.

The consensus on the 2014 quarterback class is that no one really knows how good these guys really are, and that taking one high for the sake of it could be a dire mistake in the mold of Christian Ponder.
Gasp! Anything but that! ;)

Thanks for the link. Zulgad owes me a $1 for using the word "panic" in association with the drafting of Christian Ponder. ;)

Zulgad is basically saying "don't take a chance because it might not work out" but that's going to be true regardless of what position the Vikings draft. We say it every year: there are no guarantees when it comes to the draft.

I keep seeing the implication that waiting until the second round to draft a QB will somehow provide more job security for Spielman than taking a chance on a QB in round 1 because a second miss there will supposedly cost him his job. Zulgad throws that out there again but losing is what costs GMs their jobs, not just missing on first round QBs. The latter can lead to losing but the idea that waiting until the second round to draft a QB will somehow be less risky for Spielman makes little sense. If they invest a second round pick in a QB, they're still likely to try to making him into the QB of the future. There's no dodging this point: Spielman has to find a solution to the team's QB issues. Failure to do that will likely lead to more mediocre or losing seasons and that is what would get him fired. His job isn't going to be more secure simply because he didn't spend another first round pick on a QB.

As for the rest of Zulgad's article... who cares that there's no "clear-cut, top-of-the-line quarterback in this draft"? If there was, with several QB-needy teams in better position to take such a player, the odds are that the Vikes wouldn't get him anyway and even if they did, he still wouldn't come with a money-back guarantee. The confusion in the rankings from draft evaluators and gurus doesn't matter. The absence of a consensus among them doesn't matter. What matters is how the Vikings evaluate these QBs and whether the one they choose meets their expectations and plays well. It's that simple. The Vikes aren't going to make their decision based on what Kiper, Mayock, Pauline, Wright, McShay, etc. suggest. They'll make it based on their own criteria.

If the Vikings feel there's a QB worth taking at #8 then they should take him. Fear of failure is a terrible reason to pass on a player if they believe he's their best choice. They don't have the luxury of taking Zulgad's view.
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by HardcoreVikesFan »

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:According to Judd Zulgad of ESPN 1500, the Minnesota Vikings would be making a big mistake if they drafted a quarterback early in the draft.

The consensus on the 2014 quarterback class is that no one really knows how good these guys really are, and that taking one high for the sake of it could be a dire mistake in the mold of Christian Ponder.

The varying degrees of opinions that shoot out in so many directions shows even the top evaluators can't get a grip on Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, and the rest of quarterback in the draft.

The return of Matt Cassel gives the team enough wiggle room to wait and let a quarterback fall to them, addressing other needs of the team in the meantime.

Zulgad writes:

'General manager Rick Spielman, and the rest of us, learned just how painful it can be to panic and cave to pressure by grabbing a quarterback in 2011, when Christian Ponder was selected 12th overall. This is not suggesting the Vikings let all seven rounds of the draft go by without considering a quarterback. Taking one in the second round or later might enable someone to come in and learn behind Cassel. It might be a perfect situation. The basis for this feeling growing stronger is simple: Nobody knows exactly how to rank this quarterback class.'
My respect for Zulgad diminishes every year. Ever since he has went to ESPN 1500 he has become a crock.

My #### there is no quarterback worthy taking in the top ten of the draft. The NFL scouting community is over thinking this entire draft way too much. I feel though the push back date has left more time for the scouts in the NFL to over-evaluate each player in the draft. I am sorry, but to sit there and tell me that Teddy Bridgewater/Johnny Manziel/Bortles are not better players than Tyalor Lewan/Justin Gilbert/Ha Ha Clinton Dix/C.J. Mosely/Kony Ealy/Aaron Donald is laughable.

Who exact does Zulgad want to draft? There is little chace Khalil Mack makes it number eight. There is no way in hell Jadeveon makes it that far. There is no way Sammy Watkins makes it to eight. The only player that will realistically be there is Anthony Barr, leaving one of the top three quarterbacks at our pick. Maybe Jake Matthews, but there is no chance this team drafts him. As much as I love Anthony Barr, how is he a 'surer thing' than say Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles?
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by Slick Rick »

:lol:

I remember leading up to the draft a couple of years ago people were saying that Andrew Luck wasn't even the best QB in the draft and all that. It's funny because no one technically knows whether or not any of these guys will pan out, but these teams all have the best scouts in the world at their disposal. They aren't going to listen to some guy on NFL Network or ESPN tell them that Johnny Manziel is going to be the next Joe Montana if they've already scouted him, and think he's the next Ryan Leaf.

I see this draft and I think it goes one of two ways:

1. The Jags, Browns, and Raiders, and maybe even the Texans address QB early on, allowing for the better big-bodies to fall down the draft. This means the Vikings will have an excellent chance of getting a guy like Mack at #8, or even better what if someone wants to pay through the nose to get a guy like Jake Matthews or if he somehow didn't get picked up by Atlanta, Greg Robinson.

2. Those teams do the exact opposite and load up on the big-bodies. Mack is gone at #6 to Atlanta, but then that probably means that all 4 of the best QBs made it up to Tampa. I can't see Tampa passing on Evans to take a QB at #7. I can't see them convincing anyone into trading up for a QB, so that means the Vikings probably have their pick. Whoever you think the #1 QB is in this draft, he's yours now. That isn't a terrible proposition either.

I think the Vikings have plenty of ways of having a great draft no matter what happens with the first 7 picks before us. If there's a position worth "reaching" for, it's QB. As I've said many times before, I think the whole "best player available" strategy has been blown way out of proportion, and that many teams recognize that QB is too difficult to fill to stick to that line of thinking so rigidly.
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by Mothman »

fiestavike wrote:I'm still not sold on Mack... :confused:
At this point, I'd say you probably aren't going to be sold on him... :)
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Re: Dilemma at #8: QB or Mack?

Post by oldskoolvikingfan »

Jeffbleedspurple wrote: I'm one of those dorks that isn't to concerned about the QB position anyways! most because I think the defense was a way bigger issue on the team than QB. :shock:
I would be way more concerned with the QB position than the Defense. I mean last year the defense was pretty bad but that was because Fraziers dumb tampa 2 sceme which we didn't have the right players to play in, such as putting Henderson in at mike, having josh robinson playing slot which he had never played before! At QB we had FAIL MARY Ponder, Josh Freeman, and Cassel!!! :wallbang: :steamed: :confused: We need to get a QB this year that way we can hopefully win a super bowl with Peterson within the next 5 years. Its that simple.
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