Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Texas Vike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 am
x 405

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Texas Vike »

King James wrote:Look at it this way Mothman. Look at every season ever played in the NFL. Out of those seasons, what do you think the average fan will remember the most. Will they remember who all finish first in the division and the conference, or will they remember who won the super bowl? I think think it's the latter.

Only fans of a specific team will remember or care about that teams accolades outside of super bowl victories. Unless you're an NFL fanatic, analyst, or Vikings fan, I doubt the average NFL fans can recall much about the Vikings of old other than the Purple People Eaters.

All you hear is how great we were in the old Met stadium and how we sucked after we moved to the dome. Had we won a super bowl or two, we'd actually have something worth talking about in the NFL history books.

Outside of the Vikings fanbase, you will rarely hear the name Bud Grant like you hear all the other great coaches like Lombardi, Madden, and etc. Why????????? Because he is not great like these men. These men knew how to win and get a super bowl victory.
Bud Grant was an underachiever. The only reason most Vikings fans praise him is because he's the closest thing to a super bowl we ever got. What else do we have to cheer for?
Most sacrilegious post of the year? You sullied The Met, the Purple People Eaters, and Bud Grant all in one post. It isn't as black and white as you make it IMO.
King James
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1736
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:23 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by King James »

Texas Vike wrote: Most sacrilegious post of the year? You sullied The Met, the Purple People Eaters, and Bud Grant all in one post. It isn't as black and white as you make it IMO.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Vikings. I appreciate what Bud Grant has done for this franchise. I still think he's the greatest coach the VIKINGS have had, but not one of the greatest to become a NFL coach overall. This is not being disrespectful, this is the truth. The ONLY time I hear how great Bud Grant was, is from fellow Vikings fans, no one else. Yet you always hear, no matter what fan you are, about coaches like Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Don Shula, Tom Landry, and Joe Gibbs. Why, because these men not only had talented players but they were real teachers of the game. They also did something that Bud Grant couldn't do, but I'm sure you already know where I'm going with that. :wink:
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Purple bruise »

Bottum line King is you think Grant was the Vikings best coach ever. That he was not a great coach because he never won a Super Bowl. You say that the only time that YOU ever hear anyone calling him a great coach is from Viking fans and no one else. You discount the fact that he won 11 division titles and went to 4 Super Bowls. Even though he was enshrined into the NFL Hall of Fame ( voted in by non Viking fans, for the most part) that still means little enough for you to admit that Bud Grant was/is a GREAT coach. Fine, you are entitled to your belief.
I am done with the issue :yawn:
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Mothman »

King James wrote:Don't get me wrong. I love the Vikings. I appreciate what Bud Grant has done for this franchise. I still think he's the greatest coach the VIKINGS have had, but not one of the greatest to become a NFL coach overall. This is not being disrespectful, this is the truth. The ONLY time I hear how great Bud Grant was, is from fellow Vikings fans, no one else.
It's your truth, as you see it. You may sincerely believe it but it amounts to nothing more than a personal opinion once we get past your point of view. Then the truth is that Grant is remembered, and honored, as one of the greatest NFL coaches of all time. There are plenty of non-Vikings fans who view Grant that way. There are professional NFL writers and broadcasters, former coaches, etc. who also view him that way, Not everyone has your narrow "winning a Super Bowl is all that matters" attitude. Grant, and the Vikings, have done plenty to justify their place in the NFL history books. That's why quite a few Vikings, including Grant, are in the Hall of Fame, where the NFL honors it's history.
User avatar
Texas Vike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 am
x 405

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Texas Vike »

King James wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I love the Vikings. I appreciate what Bud Grant has done for this franchise. I still think he's the greatest coach the VIKINGS have had, but not one of the greatest to become a NFL coach overall. This is not being disrespectful, this is the truth. The ONLY time I hear how great Bud Grant was, is from fellow Vikings fans, no one else. Yet you always hear, no matter what fan you are, about coaches like Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Don Shula, Tom Landry, and Joe Gibbs. Why, because these men not only had talented players but they were real teachers of the game. They also did something that Bud Grant couldn't do, but I'm sure you already know where I'm going with that. :wink:
You're talking about the masses of humanity; i.e. not particularly well informed fans of the NFL. The masses' awareness of anything is inherently superficial. They have enough to remember or be aware of Super Bowl winners and not much else. That doesn't mean Grant wasn't a superb coach.
User avatar
VikeMike
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:11 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by VikeMike »

The best thing of all about this Bud Grant debate is that bud wouldn't care less about how he is perceived by anyone but his piers. And more than one HOF coach has called Grant a great coach. Shula, Landry, Madden, Noll ... All of them have said he was a great coach. He had a hand in using RBs as receivers and using it as an extension of the running game. He also started bringing in extra players in a huddle and having them run off before the snap to confuse the offense as to what defensive package they were going to use -- that was later outlawed but the rules committee. Besides helping build the Vikings into one of the dominant teams of the 1970s (along with GM Jim Fink). And the guy won five Grey Cups in CFL.

Was he Lombardi? No. He didn't win the Super Bowl, and he was out coached in SB IV, I would agree. Although, the Vikings beat the snot out of the chiefs in the regular-season opener in 1970.

But, Bud has moved on ... I'm sure he hated losing those SBs, but I'm glad he seems to be a content guy.
"Meet at the quarterback"
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Mothman »

VikeMike wrote:The best thing of all about this Bud Grant debate is that bud wouldn't care less about how he is perceived by anyone but his piers. And more than one HOF coach has called Grant a great coach. Shula, Landry, Madden, Noll ... All of them have said he was a great coach. He had a hand in using RBs as receivers and using it as an extension of the running game. He also started bringing in extra players in a huddle and having them run off before the snap to confuse the offense as to what defensive package they were going to use -- that was later outlawed but the rules committee. Besides helping build the Vikings into one of the dominant teams of the 1970s (along with GM Jim Fink). And the guy won five Grey Cups in CFL.

Was he Lombardi? No. He didn't win the Super Bowl, and he was out coached in SB IV, I would agree. Although, the Vikings beat the snot out of the chiefs in the regular-season opener in 1970.

But, Bud has moved on ... I'm sure he hated losing those SBs, but I'm glad he seems to be a content guy.
I am too and I don't think there's any doubt at all that he's a great coach. Some people may choose to believe otherwise but as you said, his peers acknowledge what he accomplished and there's no greater compliment than that, because those are men who understand the job.

"Good" coaches simply don't accomplish what Grant did.
Last edited by Mothman on Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
King James
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1736
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:23 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by King James »

Any coach who told Bud Grant he was a "great" coach was just probably being polite.
User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38292
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 409

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Mothman »

King James wrote:Any coach who told Bud Grant he was a "great" coach was just probably being polite.
LOL! Is that why they voted him into the Hall of Fame too? They just didn't want to be rude.
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Purple bruise »

Mothman wrote: LOL! Is that why they voted him into the Hall of Fame too? They just didn't want to be rude.
I just figured it out Jim, he is pulling our legs 'cause know one is that stupid :lol:
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
User avatar
VikeMike
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:11 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by VikeMike »

I suppose Grant was "great" in Canada and merely "good" in the U.S.
:lol:
"Meet at the quarterback"
King James
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1736
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:23 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by King James »

Purple bruise wrote: I just figured it out Jim, he is pulling our legs 'cause know one is that stupid :lol:

No one knows the thought process of the selection committee who vote these players/coaches in the HoF. And don't act like you guys know either. Like most fans, you're all just happy that someone off this team is getting recognition for something.

I guess I am stupid because I refuse to be a bias fan and accept mediocrity for greatness. The HoF is overrated anyway. Yes they let a lot of great legends in there but they also let really good but not great people like Bud Grant in their too.

I don't care how many personal awards he gets, I know one award he WONT get, a super bowl ring. Why because he wasn't great enough to lead his team to one. :lol:
User avatar
AP_AD28
Rookie
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:19 pm
Location: @Zach15Harmon

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by AP_AD28 »

The HoF is overrated anyway
A collaboration of the greatest players to play the greatest sport (in my opionion) ever is overrated? ok.

Vikings fan or not, Grant was the first coach to reach 4 super bowls...win or lose thats a great and historic achievement
User avatar
Delaqure
Franchise Player
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:53 pm

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Delaqure »

The vikings are tied for 3rd place in winning the most division titles since the Superbowl era began. They are tied with San Francisco with 18 division titles. Grant won 11 of them. Grant is 14th in all time wins for NFL coaches. He won one NFL championship and 3 NFC championships. He is 15th in all time most playoff wins.

Now how many head coaches have their been in the history of the game? If being in the top 15 for wins, playoff wins, NFL and NFC championships doesn't make you a great coach, then I frankly don't know what does. Unless of course you base greatness on Superbowl wins alone. If that is your only measurement for greatness, then I am afraid I am at a loss. Teams win championships not coaches. The coach is a large part of it, but if the players fail in the big game, you can't place it on the coaches shoulders. If winning Superbowls are all that matter for greatness, then NONE of the Viking players of those days were great. They were all good players, but none of them were great. Winning a Superbowl is a team effort, the coach game plans and puts the players in the best spot to win, but if the players fail to execute that is not on the coach.

In the Superbowl losses I watched fumbles at key times. I saw interceptions thrown. I saw poor tackling or poor blocking. I saw players failing to execute and dropping balls. Great coaching and great play got the Vikings to the big game. They were great, the coach was great and many of the players were great. You don't get to the dance four times without being great. They just weren't great on the big day.
Purple bruise
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Zimmer prepping for TCF Bank Stadium

Post by Purple bruise »

Delaqure wrote:The vikings are tied for 3rd place in winning the most division titles since the Superbowl era began. They are tied with San Francisco with 18 division titles. Grant won 11 of them. Grant is 14th in all time wins for NFL coaches. He won one NFL championship and 3 NFC championships. He is 15th in all time most playoff wins.

Now how many head coaches have their been in the history of the game? If being in the top 15 for wins, playoff wins, NFL and NFC championships doesn't make you a great coach, then I frankly don't know what does. Unless of course you base greatness on Superbowl wins alone. If that is your only measurement for greatness, then I am afraid I am at a loss. Teams win championships not coaches. The coach is a large part of it, but if the players fail in the big game, you can't place it on the coaches shoulders. If winning Superbowls are all that matter for greatness, then NONE of the Viking players of those days were great. They were all good players, but none of them were great. Winning a Superbowl is a team effort, the coach game plans and puts the players in the best spot to win, but if the players fail to execute that is not on the coach.

In the Superbowl losses I watched fumbles at key times. I saw interceptions thrown. I saw poor tackling or poor blocking. I saw players failing to execute and dropping balls. Great coaching and great play got the Vikings to the big game. They were great, the coach was great and many of the players were great. You don't get to the dance four times without being great. They just weren't great on the big day.
Great post and I could not agree more except to add that the Vikings lost to some pretty great teams sans Kansas City.
Hopefully he is done now making a fool of himself :yawn:
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!


Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Post Reply