Zimmer, not Spielman, wanted the Captain

[mondry]

I just watched a report that Captain Munerlyn was basically signed because of Zimmer and no one else. I don't mean to imply that Spielman was AGAINST the move, but it was Zimmer's idea which is a great sign for Captain's ability to produce.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikin ... um=twitter

As I’ve stated before I think Rick Spielman is completely awful at evaluating CBs at any level which is why I wanted him to pay $ for a big name (since big names become big names basically by EVERYONE else evaluating them) since RS is batting 0.00 at trying to find that diamond in the rough in the draft or free agency. So if Zimmer steps in like this and points out somebody, then we are already ahead of what we were before.

I feel even more confident about Captain with the knowledge that it wasn't Spielman's idea. (I am a Spielman fan, but his biggest weakness is CB.) I’m really looking forward to our defense in 2014, and think we can pick up where we left off in 2012 yet take it up several notches to be one of the best in the NFL.

I'm not really sure the video says all that, I think Frazier has done the same thing Zimmer has when he put his stamp of approval on guys like Chris Cook. It was Frazier who wanted Cook, it's really the same thing, just Frazier's guy sucked and we don't know if Zimmer's guy will or not. But to think Spielman went "rogue" and didn't take any of Fraziers input or value his opinion in the picking process while some how doing a 180 when it comes to Zimmer's is something I just can't buy.

Spielman has always said he's talked with his coaches and they come up with a blueprint TOGETHER for the type of players they want for the systems they want to run and what to look for in the scouting department. Because it's such an isolated issue at CB it leads me to believe the soft cover 2 and the type of specific CB's Frazier wanted was more of the problem than Spielman's drafting. Not many guys were going to look good in that defense. Meanwhile everywhere else has been fine. Musgrave needs some better pieces on offense so we get Rudolph, we need some new WR's and we get Jennings, Patterson, and Simpson. We need a new LT and get Kalil, we didn't have a full back so we got Felton. Priefer needs a better kicker we get Walsh, need a better punter and we get locke, need a better returner and we get Patterson.

On defense is where you can see so much of Frazier and Alan Williams' incompetence in their defensive scheme and ability to identify the players they need to make it successful leading to the Erin Hendersons, Marvin Mitchells, Chris Cooks, Josh Robinsons, and so on. I'm not willing to blame Spielman for getting the guys Frazier wanted and Frazier being unable to make it work. Every other part of the team has been successful collaborating with Spielman and I don't think much of guys like Musgrave or Priefer, that tells you how bad Frazier and Williams really were.

[Loki]

This goes to the point i made in an earlier thread about spielman.

One thing i wanted to point out that I've been Noticing so far in free agency is how the Mike Zimmer hire has helped change my view of Rick Spielman. I think he is finally changing some of his hard headed ways as a GM. I think before he would make hires/signings of unknown or lesser known players/coaches to make himself look smart for finding a diamond in the rough and he viewed himself on a higher level than the coaches since they were "his" guys and didn't really take their opinion into account. I think with the Zimmer signing he realised his Job is on the line so he had to put his ego aside and sign Zimmer who is obviously his own man and not one of "his" guys. I think this helped free agency because Zimmer will stand up for what he thinks and not be rolled over by Spielmans ideas. I also attribute this to an extent to why the team is going after more established young players with upside and less diamond in the rough/discount "spielman guys". Just some food for thought.

[Purple bruise]

I just watched a report that Captain Munerlyn was basically signed because of Zimmer and no one else. I don't mean to imply that Spielman was AGAINST the move, but it was Zimmer's idea which is a great sign for Captain's ability to produce.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikin ... um=twitter

As I’ve stated before I think Rick Spielman is completely awful at evaluating CBs at any level which is why I wanted him to pay $ for a big name (since big names become big names basically by EVERYONE else evaluating them) since RS is batting 0.00 at trying to find that diamond in the rough in the draft or free agency. So if Zimmer steps in like this and points out somebody, then we are already ahead of what we were before.

I feel even more confident about Captain with the knowledge that it wasn't Spielman's idea. (I am a Spielman fan, but his biggest weakness is CB.) I’m really looking forward to our defense in 2014, and think we can pick up where we left off in 2012 yet take it up several notches to be one of the best in the NFL.

That is a pretty mis-leading topic. Where did it talk about Spielman not wanting the Captain

[King James]

It was also Fraizer who wanted McTerrible as our QB in 2011. So I think Spielman did listen to Frazier. I think the only difference between Zimmer and Frazier is that Zimmer has a full plan of what kind of players that he wants. Where it seems like Frazier would pick some guys and then let Spielman pick some guys. Now my problem with Spielman is that he doesn't usually sign the right players that can fit our system. I think he just get guys that are high on the boards and just assume that they will fit into our scheme. Frazier messed up because it did seem like Spielman made most of the decisions by himself

Zimmer seems to be more vocal and knows what he wants.

[dead_poet]

Frazier messed up because it did seem like Spielman made most of the decisions by himself

That's because that's Spielman's job. He can listen to input from coaches all he wants, but who he brings on the roster is always his decision (now).

There's no proof Spielman listens any more or less to Zimmer than he did to Frazier.

[King James]

That's because that's Spielman's job. He can listen to input from coaches all he wants, but who he brings on the roster is always his decision (now).

There's no proof Spielman listens any more or less to Zimmer than he did to Frazier.

You're not comprehended what I'm saying. What I'm saying that Frazier did not do a good job in telling Spielman what kind of players he wanted in his system.

Whereas Spielman now seems to be getting players who can fit the coaches system.

Not once did I imply that Spielman was not taking what Frazier suggested into consideration. I just don't think Frazier gave Spielman enough players to look at THUS Spielman just handled the rest of the roster decisions on his own, without any suggestions thrown his way.

[dead_poet]

You're not comprehended what I'm saying. What I'm saying that Frazier did not do a good job in telling Spielman what kind of players he wanted in his system.

We have absolutely no way of knowing this. From the reports that came out over the last couple of seasons with Frazier, there was clear direction the type of players he/they were wanting. You also have to keep in mind who was available, if he was worth the asking price, the Vikings' cap situation and if the guys wanted to even come here.

Not once did I imply that Spielman was not taking what Frazier suggested into consideration. I just don't think Frazier gave Spielman enough players to look at

How the hell would you know the players Frazier may or may not have been looking at? It's also Spielman's job to be looking at all the available players (free agents as well as guys to be traded for).

THUS Spielman just handled the rest of the roster decisions on his own, without any suggestions thrown his way.

This is ridiculous. You couldn't possibly know this. Just wild speculation.

[dead_poet]

Exhibit A:

Are there lessons learned from the success you had in last year's draft that can be applied to this year?

[Spielman]: I think the biggest thing is identifying the type of players we want. I think with us, the personnel, the scouts and the coaches working together a lot more closely and everybody being on the same page and identifying exactly what we're looking for both on and off the field as well, I think it really honed in and cleaned up and we want to still stick to that same philosophy. I know watching them work together at the Senior Bowl and now we're getting ready to go at the combine and everything we got coming up, everybody is very excited about building on what we were able to accomplish last year. A lot of it has to do with Leslie and myself working together, and our scouts working together and being all on the same page. And I think we definitely are.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/mobi ... zier021513

Exhibit B:

Although some of the offseason moves - such as releasing veteran kicker Ryan Longwell - sacrificed the near term for the long term, Frazier said he was in concert with Spielman every step of the way.

"There isn't a decision that's made that the two of us don't talk about and agree upon," Frazier said. "It would just not be good. So the decisions that have been made are decisions that were discussed and we were in agreement that this is the right thing to do. It's hard to build a team if the general manager and the head coach aren't on the same page. And we are, thank goodness."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... coach-otas

[King James]

This is ridiculous. You couldn't possibly know this. Just wild speculation.

Well damn can I have my speculation then? You people annoy me on here. Can't even have an opinion without someone trying to prove it wrong. That's my theory, and I'm sticking with it.

[dead_poet]

Well damn can I have my speculation then? You people annoy me on here. Can't even have an opinion without someone trying to prove it wrong. That's my theory, and I'm sticking with it.

I guess you can "have your speculation." I just get annoyed when I read speculation spouted off as fact. I guess that's my problem, though.

[frosted]

I don't know why or who was responsible for signing him, I'm just glad they did, we sure did need lot's of help at the position.

Exactly!

[Purple bruise]

Boy, some of you guys aren't very good at reading are you. Re-read line #2 where I said:

"I don't mean to imply that Spielman was AGAINST the move"

Are your attention spans that short you only read the subject line? Kids these days ...[/quote

Duh I said the topic is misleading. When you read the text it says nothing about Spielman not wanting the Captain. So to make it simple,when you make up a headline for a topic and it states that Zimmer, not Spielman, wanted the Captian most people, after reading the topic headline, would imagine that somewhere in the context there would be some statement to the effect of Spielman did not want the Captain but Zimmer did.
It has nothing to do with attention span

[KSViking]

the bottom line between Frazier and Spielman is they never seemed to be on the same page. And when your HC and GM are not on the same page, bad things happen and one of 'em ends up gone. they never seemed to agree on the QB position as a whole, most notably the reveal that Donovan McNabb was a 100% Leslie Frazier idea and Spielman was definitely not on board for that. And so you can imagine the back and forth and lack of productivity that ensues when the 2 guys in charge disagree about something so fundamental. if I'm not mistaken one of the first things Spielman said at the Zimmer into conference was the importance of being on the same page.

I agree, but which coach and GM that still work together ever come out and say. We are just not on the same page about much of anything on this team? It only happens after the fact. During the "Marriage", most of them publicly state that everyone is getting along, on the same page, working well together, and driving towards a common goal. Then when the "Divorce" comes along, sometimes they open up about how things were not that cohesive. I think its just human nature though, and wanting to be perceived as someone who works well as a team. Also, the GM typically is higher ranking than the coach, and has either direct or indirect decision making on whether the coach remains with the team, so there wouldn't be many that want to put themselves out there as the guy who is criticizing his boss.