Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Mothman
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

Post by Mothman »

mondry wrote:lol, to some extent?!
Yes, to some extent... and all I meant by that was that he was a part of those teams but not ultimately responsible for their success or failure. It's not like he can be completely excluded from the outcomes when he was the defensive coordinator for those teams.
Dalton had 3 turnovers by himself, completed only 56.9% of his passes, and a rating of 67.0. One of those picks was returned to the 3 yard line and zimmer's defense stuffed them and held them to a field goal. Next possession? Pick #2 for Dalton and what did Zimmer's D do? 3 and out, stopped on 3rd and 1, chargers punt. Offense turns it over on downs again! Dalton also fumbled earlier in the game and it was recovered by the Chargers.

Rivers only had 128 yards passing even! But can't give them short fields via turnovers.

Zimmer only controlled 1/3rd of the team (offense, defense, special teams) and for all intents and purposes, his 1/3rd of the team is pretty much THE reason the Bengals even sniff the playoffs all those years. I for one am excited to see if that 1/3rd he was responsible for can translate to the entire team as the head coach. Plenty of guys from winning franchises like the Patriots who have butt loads of playoff wins (Josh Mcdaniels comes to mind) flame out so clearly being part of a TEAM that has playoff success isn't the deciding factor in a successful head coach either. I see very little reason to hold that against Zimmer unless you're simply looking for a reason to be negative.
Relax, I wasn't trying to be positive or negative, just stating a fact, which I then qualified by saying that the absence of playoff wins over Zimmer's NFL career as a coordinator doesn't mean he can't win in the postseason as a head coach. I mistakenly thought that qualification would make it clear that I wasn't holding the postseason goose egg (as a coordinator) against him.

Remember, I like Mike Zimmer as a choice for Vikings head coach. I've said so from the start and I have no reason to run him down.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Mothman wrote: Relax, I wasn't trying to be positive or negative, just stating a fact
Hey Jim, I know that! I quoted you and so I'm being confusing here but I more so just wanted to state the reasons why I don't think playoff success as DC or OC really hold much weight in an analysis of how a guy will be as a head coach. :P

The some extent thing I just found funny because Dalton (and by extension) the offense did have such a bad game.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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mondry wrote: Hey Jim, I know that! I quoted you and so I'm being confusing here but I more so just wanted to state the reasons why I don't think playoff success as DC or OC really hold much weight in an analysis of how a guy will be as a head coach. :P
Understood and I agree, I don't think that stuff has much bearing on what will happen next. I feel the same way about Turner. I do have some questions about this staff but I feel pretty confident in what those two will be able to do. As I've made clear, I think the talent on the field is going to have more to do with the Vikings success or failure than anything else. These last few drafts need to become the foundation for a very good team and Bridgewater, in particular needs to deliver the goods. If the Vikes don't get their QB dilemma solved, I doubt they can be consistent winners under any coaching staff.
The some extent thing I just found funny because Dalton (and by extension) the offense did have such a bad game.
They did, although that wasn't the only playoff game Zimmer has coached in during the past 17 years. His defenses have had mixed results in the postseason but never anything disastrous, which, as far as I'm concerned, is a good sign. I'm still traumatized by some of the team's postseason performances on defense during the Dennis Green era!
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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I have to admit, Bridgewater seems like a pretty good fit in Turner's system (despite his "average" arm). If everything I've read about him is true (and he grasps the playbook) he has a real shot to open the season as a starter.

In early stages of Norv Turner's system, it's about QB's photo memory

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/In_e ... mory053014
"I'm dating myself because they don't use these anymore, but when we first started, we'd give you a picture, a Polaroid picture," Turner said. "Now, we use iPads and press stop at a certain point against a certain coverage. When that play is called, that [image] has got to flash in your minds, that way you have to understand where everyone is and you understand why everyone's put in that place."

One of the quarterback's main responsibilities in any NFL scheme, especially Turner's, is the passer's ability to anticipate the throw and make snap decisions - tributes that made the Dallas Cowboys' Troy Aikman a Super Bowl-winning quarterback under Turner in the early 90s.

Though Bridgewater missed both Thursday's and Friday's OTA workouts to attend a NFLPA event in California, Turner said the rookie's attributes have proven to be an early fit for the skill set he needs to run the system.

"What I like now about Teddy, he learns very quickly," Turner said. "He makes very quick and very good decisions. He's very athletic in the pocket, gets back quick, and that helps him see things better. He's very instinctive. He's really done a nice job with his decision making and sometimes you're getting the play call and you're saying, "I don't even know if he knows what the play is," and he's going back, he makes a good read and makes a real quick decision."

Three basic premises make up Turner's offense: (1) a vertical passing game, (2) adequate pass protection for 5- to 7-step dropbacks and (3) a power running game - even with the often-used three-receiver sets. One of the most intriguing factors will be how Adrian Peterson is used by Turner, who has coached some of the NFL's greatest backs in Emmitt Smith, LaDainian Tomlinson and Frank Gore.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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dead_poet wrote:I have to admit, Bridgewater seems like a pretty good fit in Turner's system (despite his "average" arm). If everything I've read about him is true (and he grasps the playbook) he has a real shot to open the season as a starter.
Yeah, like I've said before, getting a very Russell Wilson like vibe from all of this and Teddy. He's the real deal when it comes to all that mental stuff Ponder lacked on the field.

even with the often-used three-receiver sets. One of the most intriguing factors will be how Adrian Peterson is used by Turner, who has coached some of the NFL's greatest backs in Emmitt Smith, LaDainian Tomlinson and Frank Gore.
This is probably the most interesting thing to me is that we're finally going to see what Peterson can do when the field is spread out, rather than condensed.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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dead_poet wrote:Norv Turner's Offensive Arsenal

http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/N ... 624db2badd
WR Jerome Simpson
Turner is an outstanding and experienced coach. But Simpson has something not even Turner can coach into a player – speed. You can be sure Turner will find a way to use Simpson’s speed to burn opposing defenses.
I keep hearing about Simpson's speed and ability to stretch the field, but in his two seasons in Minnesota I can't think of a single successful use of him in that role. The Vikings turned him into a possession receiver. It will be interesting to see if they can put together a passing offense that is capable of using his talents as well as those of Jennings, Patterson and Wright.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

Post by Texas Vike »

Sports Over Beers has a very informal blab session on Turner and how he's different from Musgrave, among other things. Some worthwhile discussion if you can roll with the format (crack a beer and join 'em):

http://www.1500espn.com/shows/sob
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Eli wrote: I keep hearing about Simpson's speed and ability to stretch the field, but in his two seasons in Minnesota I can't think of a single successful use of him in that role. The Vikings turned him into a possession receiver. It will be interesting to see if they can put together a passing offense that is capable of using his talents as well as those of Jennings, Patterson and Wright.
If I were a coach I would try my best to get Simpson involved in some slant routes or just a straight out vertical. To me it seems like Simpson is the type of WR that needs separation from defenders to complete more passes. Too many times I have seen him attempt to catch the ball while covered pretty good. While he can make those catches sometimes, I think trying to catch over defenders is outside of is element. He has the vertical leap to go up over a defender but not consistent hands.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

Post by Eli »

Simpson has actually been targeted on quite a few slant rounds. He's caught some and he's had some bounce off his hands, mostly high throws in the style that Ponder is known for, and the ultimate nightmare for a receiver: crossing into the middle of the field, completely stretched out and exposed by a bad throw.

They've also tried throwing him a number of fade routes and so far, Simpson's forte has been in drawing PI more often than actually catching the ball. But again, too many of those balls were thrown badly and ended up a couple yards out of bounds.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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King James wrote: If I were a coach I would try my best to get Simpson involved in some slant routes or just a straight out vertical. To me it seems like Simpson is the type of WR that needs separation from defenders to complete more passes. Too many times I have seen him attempt to catch the ball while covered pretty good. While he can make those catches sometimes, I think trying to catch over defenders is outside of is element. He has the vertical leap to go up over a defender but not consistent hands.
In a brief search, I found a play, sorry it was thrown by Ponder, that disputes a claim that he has NEVER, in 2 years stretched the field.
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 3f532ac7e2
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Purple bruise wrote: In a brief search, I found a play, sorry it was thrown by Ponder, that disputes a claim that he has NEVER, in 2 years stretched the field.
I said I couldn't remember any. So his longest has been a 51 yard reception, in two years and 84 catches with the Vikings.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Turner looking for ways to tweak his system
Since he learned the Air Coryell offense from Ernie Zampese as a wide receivers coach with the Los Angeles Rams in the late 1980s, Norv Turner hasn't had to change the tenets of his offensive philosophy much. He has run a version of that offense practically everywhere he's been since then, and he's had enough success -- two Super Bowl rings as the Dallas Cowboys' offensive coordinator and 10 offenses among the league's top-10 scoring attacks in 23 years as a head coach or coordinator -- that he's had little trouble making the case his ideas work.

But Turner has also faced the charge that his scheme is predictable at various points over the years, and with new ideas catching on in the NFL over the past few seasons -- in the form of more wide-open offenses and complex defenses that are harder to diagnose -- Turner said he spent some time this offseason looking for ways to tweak the scheme he planned to install with the Minnesota Vikings.

"There's a big part of this offense that's been the same, is sound and is always going to be the same," Turner said. "There's guys who played in this offense 30, 20, 10 years ago that would recognize it. What we've tried to do with our offensive staff is, we looked at people that are having success offensively and modernized this offense a little bit, updated it a little bit. We said early that we're going to get ourselves out of our comfort zone."
More at the link.
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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Vikings' offensive coordinator Turner: Family man, football man
Turner will bring an urgency to continue advancing his well-respected “numbers” system with a demanding, in-your-face approach that already snapped the players to full attention during offseason workouts. But he also packs the calming influence of a man who has pretty much seen it all and is comfortable as a former head coach working for a man, Mike Zimmer, who had never been a head coach before Jan. 15.

“My ego allows me to do this,” said Turner, the Browns offensive coordinator last season. “Being in Cleveland last year, I don’t even consider it me getting fired or [then-head coach] Rob Chudzinkski getting fired. It was a total mess. Things were going nowhere and it was a bunch of people trying to save themselves at the end.

“But in this league, you got to wipe the slate clean and ask yourself, in my case, ‘Do I want to retire?’ No. Ultimately, I really, really like to coach. And this is a good fit.”
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 08401.html
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Re: Vikings Officially Hire Norv Turner as OC

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I said I couldn't remember any. So his longest has been a 51 yard reception, in two years and 84 catches with the Vikings.
I believe the pass was to Wright and he had to stop, and wait for the duck to get to him, and then run with it a little bit.
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